DHFC v Chippenham Town, Sat 29th April 2023

[editor]

What’s more cringeworthy? Jangling keys or a white man with dreadlocks in 2023?

Gosh. Aren't you controversial with your cowardly ad hominem bullshit.

How about you post up a picture of yourself so everyone can make vacuous judgements about how you look?

And then you can tell everyone what you've done to help the club over the past 15 years apart from jangling your keys.

 

[Christian Burt]

I think it’s perfectly reasonable to say, in the same way that you might have said “I really liked going to the game XX years ago because there was a fan culture I liked”, to now say “I don’t like going now because there’s a fan culture I don’t like”. Personally I’ve stopped going on Saturdays because there’s a fan culture I don’t like.

I know the feeling, I’ve enjoyed trips to Lewisham Borough CFC this season a few times. I’ve nothing but love for old skool who still go, but this is a straightforward post from a guy who basically said the fan culture at DHFC doesn’t appeal, so doesn’t go. Was an accurate post that doesn’t cast shade, just said it like it is tbh and mirrors how I view the club . I started to feel like the alien there, rather than my hospitable home planet, which like everything in life is partly my own fault. But I’m not going to fight my own feelings that I simply don’t enjoy it down CH.

 

[Taper]

The fans were terrific. Packed to the rafters. Lots of noise. Supporting the team to the last. And they'll be back next season. The club is lucky to have them.

 

[baleboy_93]

The fans were terrific. Packed to the rafters. Lots of noise. Supporting the team to the last. And they'll be back next season. The club is lucky to have them.

Sounded so noisy from the back of the stand too. Thought it might have been the noisiest it’s been at the ground since the first game back against Eastbourne in 2018, banging on the hoardings, the mesh above the tunnel, lots of singing, they created a great atmosphere to try and get the team going, just wasn’t matched with a few goals

 

[Moroccan Sunset]

The fans were terrific. Packed to the rafters. Lots of noise. Supporting the team to the last. And they'll be back next season. The club is lucky to have them.

I do think this is one of the positives of this season: the ratio of people actually interested in supporting the team to football tourists has noticably increased. There's plenty of new people singing behind the goal and engaging from the main stand.

And I genuinely don't think it's a coincindence that that's happened in the season where we've outted the last regime, who couldn't even be arsed to give us an interview after some matches, and had two managers who've put a much greater emphasis on engaging with the crowds and trying to harness their vocality. I wasn't quite sure about the whole 'clapping after the warm up' thing that HH does, but I think it's worked a treat and there is a much greater focus on the game now. Another reason why I think it's vital to keep Hakan next season because maybe that's something that can be built on.

 

[Christian Burt]

All fair points, fellas.
Not for me right now, but hopefully the Nyren testimonial

 

[liamdhfc]

Ah well. There’s still the Turvey.
But going back to the “sad for the kids” point. Kids are pricks. They only want to see a winning team. Upper-mid table in the Isthmian and winning say 2/3 home games, and playing well doing so, they will enjoy far more than another dogfight to stay in Zero* Football division.

(*don’t know what the opposite of Total Football is, I’ve gone for Zero).

I’m really struggling to see what you would like the club to do to accommodate kids who want to kick a football around, and how many grounds you have visited where that happens/is possible. Should a cage be built where the outside bar is located? Should the areas where there are food vendors be set aside for them to play? What effect on fan experience would that have? How much more criticism would rightfully be voiced if there were an even bigger struggle to serve the majority of those who attend. I really don’t have any idea what your solution would be & I don’t think there’s ever a point identifying problems without at least proposing a potential solution.

 

[Blitzwalker]

Didn’t go yesterday due to cricket commitments but whilst a relegation isn’t good news, especially on goal difference, to paraphrase Dulwich Hammer, it’s been coming. Shipping so many goals, especially at Worthing, Chelmsford and Havant certainly hasn’t helped our cause.

There’s no point in playing the “Blame Game” though, it isn’t the end of the world and the Isthmian League should give us a chance to regroup with hopefully a more focused set of players.

Home attendances won’t be impacted and there’s the chance of some good away trips, which with the reduced distances involved should make travelling easier and more affordable for many people, so there are always positives.

If we stick together, support the team however we can and go back to enjoying ourselves rather than falling out on this messageboard, then there’s a lot to look forward to next season.

 

[bkbk]

Let the kids play in the half we are attacking. We are rarely in that space.

 

[scousedom]

I’m really struggling to see what you would like the club to do to accommodate kids who want to kick a football around, and how many grounds you have visited where that happens/is possible. Should a cage be built where the outside bar is located? Should the areas where there are food vendors be set aside for them to play? What effect on fan experience would that have? How much more criticism would rightfully be voiced if there were an even bigger struggle to serve the majority of those who attend. I really don’t have any idea what your solution would be & I don’t think there’s ever a point identifying problems without at least proposing a potential solution.

So the big thing you could do is let them play while the game is going on. The last few times I went my kid was told quite sternly by stewards not to. This is a choice the club makes. I know it’s a NL regulation that if balls go on the pitch it’s a fine, but the club chooses to not obey some regulations (eg it doesn’t put up the League gambling sponsor’s advertising hoardings) so it could choose not to worry about this.

But you’re completely right on space. Now the club has chosen to build an outside bar in the bit where kids used to play - and where the club had painted goals on the walls etc to encourage them to play - and has successfully marketed itself to lots of people who want to go to an outside bar (and if this forum is to be believed, and why wouldn’t it be, to be successfully turned into Hamlet fans), space is at a premium. The club has made a clear statement that it values that customer over a different type of customer - that I happen to be. So my choice is clear: I can spend a lot of time getting angry and bitter, or I can move on from that stage of the grieving process and accept it as it is and go elsewhere. That’s what I’ve done - my season tickets now are Peckham Town and DHFCW - and I know that’s what a lot of other people at my life/family stage have done too.

 

[liamdhfc]

I do think this is one of the positives of this season: the ratio of people actually interested in supporting the team to football tourists has noticably increased. There's plenty of new people singing behind the goal and engaging from the main stand.

And I genuinely don't think it's a coincindence that that's happened in the season where we've outted the last regime, who couldn't even be arsed to give us an interview after some matches, and had two managers who've put a much greater emphasis on engaging with the crowds and trying to harness their vocality. I wasn't quite sure about the whole 'clapping after the warm up' thing that HH does, but I think it's worked a treat and there is a much greater focus on the game now. Another reason why I think it's vital to keep Hakan next season because maybe that's something that can be built on.

My take on it
Gavin should not have been offered a new contract.
Once that happens though he should not have been allowed to start recruitment without signing it.
Recruitment was terrible, with so many similar players signed, absolutely no pace and- as usual, no natural goal scorer despite the budget being big enough to get one.
No assessment of the character of players and I don’t think any consideration of how they would fit together as a team.
The seeds of relegation were sowed when Gavin showed himself unable to recruit well when he was given additional budget whilst we were riding high last season. Our results got worse as the budget went up.
I take no pleasure in stating during last summer that we could be “this year’s Billericay’ and being correct. By the time we made a change most managers were settled in a job.
Many players will move on to another pay day without a care, some will find a relegation with a club like Dulwich has,rightfully,damaged their reputation & future prospects.
I look through the team and can think of very few I would want as players or positive influences in the club.
What comes next, in my opinion it’s a chance to build back better and I know all the things above are lessons learned and adsorbed.
I saw a lot of people hurting yesterday but none more so than Ben Clasper and I know that if he does what he said he will do, the club will be so much better for it.
Roll on next season and a chance to win the Isthmian League and be properly ready for the next level.

 

[Alex W]

The constant moaning about key-jangling is deeply tedious. It's not really my cup of tea, but it's harmless fun, and something every single first-timer can get into and enjoy.

Given the amount of piss it boils on here, it must annoy the odd goalkeeper too.

Everyone complains when people come and don't pay attention to the game or make noise. But then when they do and jangle some keys, everyone complains about that too.

And besides, St Pauli and Whitehawk both do it too, which is not terrible company to be in.

 

[liamdhfc]

So the big thing you could do is let them play while the game is going on. The last few times I went my kid was told quite sternly by stewards not to. This is a choice the club makes. I know it’s a NL regulation that if balls go on the pitch it’s a fine, but the club chooses to not obey some regulations (eg it doesn’t put up the League gambling sponsor’s advertising hoardings) so it could choose not to worry about this.

But you’re completely right on space. Now the club has chosen to build an outside bar in the bit where kids used to play - and where the club had painted goals on the walls etc to encourage them to play - and has successfully marketed itself to lots of people who want to go to an outside bar (and if this forum is to be believed, and why would it, to be successfully turned into Hamlet fans), space is at a premium. The club has made a clear statement that it values that customer over a different type of customer - that I happen to be. So my choice is clear: I can spend a lot of time getting angry and bitter, or I can move on from that stage of the grieving process and accept it as it is and go elsewhere. That’s what I’ve done - my season tickets now are Peckham Town and DHFCW - and I know that’s what a lot of other people at my life/family stage have done too.

I am not without empathy for your position but I don’t think it is one the club can solve. The deign of the ground is such that it just cannot service all who come with a good experience on all levels. As the announcer for so many years now, it has long been a policy that ball games should not be played during the game. I can remember balls being kicked on the pitch almost every game, which has now been replaced with adults who think standing on steps in the stand is a good idea.
I totally respect that the experience does not fit you and your family at this time and that it may never do again. However, I just cannot see a viable solution for a business that needs to be run to maximise its match day income because it has poor facilities that don’t generate day to day cash flow.
The balance between income generation, positive fan experience, maintaining its values and ensuring community engagement is a tightrope for a club that continues to seek to grow organically without ever becoming reliant on the whims of one person again.

 

[scousedom]

I am not without empathy for your position but I don’t think it is one the club can solve. The deign of the ground is such that it just cannot service all who come with a good experience on all levels. As the announcer for so many years now, it has long been a policy that ball games should not be played during the game. I can remember balls being kicked on the pitch almost every game, which has now been replaced with adults who think standing on steps in the stand is a good idea.
I totally respect that the experience does not fit you and your family at this time and that it may never do again. However, I just cannot see a viable solution for a business that needs to be run to maximise its match day income because it has poor facilities that don’t generate day to day cash flow.
The balance between income generation, positive fan experience, maintaining its values and ensuring community engagement is a tightrope for a club that continues to seek to grow organically without ever becoming reliant on the whims of one person again.

I had never been told by a steward not to kick a ball about, nor seen others told, until promotion. It’s clearly the NL fine driving the change. Presumably it’s steeper than in the Isthmian and so is another of those finance/fan experience trade offs that you talk about.

But I agree. Having gone down the route it’s gone down, for reasons I don’t dispute are understandable, the club can’t really solve this.

Just spare a thought though for that cohort of people who became really attached to the club, partly because they saw a place that welcomed their whole family too and presumed it would for years to come. Only for them to become victims of a bait and switch.

 

[Alex W]

C

I had never been told by a steward not to kick a ball about, nor seen others told, until promotion. It’s clearly the NL fine driving the change. Presumably it’s steeper than in the Isthmian and so is another of those finance/fan experience trade offs that you talk about.

But I agree. Having gone down the route it’s gone down, for reasons I don’t dispute are understandable, the club can’t really solve this.

Just spare a thought though for that cohort of people who became really attached to the club, partly because they saw a place that welcomed their whole family too and presumed it would for years to come. Only for them to become victims of a bait and switch.

Come to the women's games on Sundays, you can't move for kids running around kicking a ball about

 

[scousedom]

C

Come to the women's games on Sundays, you can't move for kids running around kicking a ball about

I said earlier, my season tickets now are Peckham Town and DHFCW. I’ve been going to DHFCW since they first moved to us.

The womens games are great. Not least because of the atmosphere at them that a lot of people (not me, I hasten to add, I’m not trying to take credit!) have worked really hard to create. Big praise to them.

However I think it sends a worrying message if the club’s de facto attitude is “grown ups can go the mens, families should go the womens”. That’s not very 2023.

 

[Alex W]

I said earlier, my season tickets now are Peckham Town and DHFCW. I’ve been going to DHFCW since they first moved to us.

The womens games are great. Not least because of the atmosphere at them that a lot of people (not me, I hasten to add, I’m not trying to take credit!) have worked really hard to create. Big praise to them.

However I think it sends a worrying message if the club’s de facto attitude is “grown ups can go the mens, families should go the womens”. That’s not very 2023.

That's very clearly not the club's attitude. There's loads of families at the men's games, and it's generally a pretty family friendly environment.

I don't mean to be harsh, but is it not a little entitled to think the club should bend over backwards to create a space solely for your child to kick a ball around? That's what parks are for, the point of a football stadium is for people to be able to watch what's going on in the middle of the pitch.

 

[scousedom]

That's very clearly not the club's attitude. There's loads of families at the men's games, and it's generally a pretty family friendly environment.

I don't mean to be harsh, but is it not a little entitled to think the club should bend over backwards to create a space solely for your child to kick a ball around? That's what parks are for, the point of a football stadium is for people to be able to watch what's going on in the middle of the pitch.

I don’t think it’s just me. Years ago there were loads of kids kicking balls about at the mens games.

I’m just pointing out what kids want. They don’t want to sit and watch 90mins, they want to run about having their own game and occasionally dip in to watching. They used to be able to do that. Now they can’t. That’s a decision the club has - reluctantly perhaps, accidentally perhaps - made because as Liam says it pays more to have an outside bar where there once was an informal family area.

So while “families should go the womens” is not the officially stated manifesto position, if you judge by actions it’s what it is.

 

[charliepooley]

I'm definitely not alone in fucking hating the key jangling, but if you think it's great and not at all embarrassingly wanky, that's your call.

Mishi would have been proud of you saying that for sure, his pet hate the key thing

God Bless him

 

[charliepooley]

The last line in Hakan's post match interview with DHFCTV speaks volumes. He only just stops short of accusing the players of lobbing the club under a bus.

Just see his interview after yesterdays game
Never seen a manager look so down and gutted , almost on the point of tears
Gave a hint that if he was kept on their would be a major Clear-out

Hinted mind that he may be out the door as well

 

[Dave Fishwick]

There's quite a lot of other things that used to happen at football years ago and doesn't happen now to be honest

space was at a premium yesterday - I imagine there might be a bit more space next season

There should be some other stuff for kids though - there is a table football set near the outside bar

Perhaps a small area should be set aside for families with young kids which may be the best for all parties? Perhaps on the toilets opposide side where there seems to be a bit more space on either side of the stand

 

[ftg6]

Do people reckon the crowds will be lower next season? I can't really see why they would be. I don't think we have that large a contingent only going because we're National League South, and would refuse to go the Isthmian.

Obviously there won't be as many away fans in the Isthmian but bar a handful of teams in the NLS there's usually only about 10-50 of them.

I know when we were last in this Isthmian crowds were a bit lower but I think that was driven mainly by being ousted to Mitcham and word of mouth not being as prevalent back then.

This season we had an average of around 2.5k, I'll be amazed if it's any less than 2.2k next season. The football might actually be more interesting as we should win games and not look terrible, which might make daytrippers want to come back more often.

 

[scousedom]

There's quite a lot of other things that used to happen at football years ago and doesn't happen now to be honest

space was at a premium yesterday - I imagine there might be a bit more space next season

There should be some other stuff for kids though - there is a table football set near the outside bar

Perhaps a small area should be set aside for families with young kids which may be the best for all parties? Perhaps on the toilets opposide side where there seems to be a bit more space on either side of the stand

Not a bad shout. (That table football machine is rank though…) Although tbh, the ship has sailed really. I don’t think attendances will dip next year (the usual pattern of lower gates early in the season notwithstanding). It would be nice if the club did give back a family area, but I don’t expect it to - it would come with a financial hit and judging by relative upvotes on here wouldn’t be popular.

Just to take issue with being called (not by you) “entitled”. I don’t think that’s on. I’m only pointing out something that’s been taken away, I’m not asking for the moon on a stick. And I wasn’t even asking for the return of the thing taken away. I was accepting of it. I was just pointing it out as a way of saying “this thing having been taken away is a reason things aren’t as enjoyable for some people”.

 

[Alex W]

Do people reckon the crowds will be lower next season? I can't really see why they would be. I don't think we have that large a contingent only going because we're National League South, and would refuse to go the Isthmian.

Obviously there won't be as many away fans in the Isthmian but bar a handful of teams in the NLS there's usually only about 10-50 of them.

I know when we were last in this Isthmian crowds were a bit lower but I think that was driven mainly by being ousted to Mitcham and word of mouth not being as prevalent back then.

This season we had an average of around 2.5k, I'll be amazed if it's any less than 2.2k next season. The football might actually be more interesting as we should win games and not look terrible, which might make daytrippers want to come back more often.

I think crowds will be bigger if anything. We had 2,200 on Tuesday, which is a pretty good proxy for how many people come to actually watch the football. And then we sold out for yesterday's game on Wednesday.

The number of people wanting to come for a pint in the sun will stay the same, but we've got an increasingly large core of fans who are coming because they want to support the football team, and they won't be going anywhere.

Would be interesting to see how many season tickets the club sells next season, I'd wager demand will be even higher than last season.

 

[scousedom]

Struggling to remember what ticket and season ticket prices were last time we were in the Isthmian. I agree that attendances won’t go down, and if prices are lower to match the division then that’s another factor that will potentially push them higher.

 

[SimonH23]

Following up on what scousedom said, I've got season tickets to Peckham Town and Dulwich Hamlet. Anecdotal I know, but my children would rather watch Peckham at home or Dulwich away than Dulwich at home, because it's so crowded / it's difficult to see / they can't kick a ball around at Champion Hill. I wouldn't want/expect Dulwich to change because of that (and I know how difficult it would be anyway), but I wonder if bigger crowds in the current stadium just means fewer children would want to go.

 

[Roger D]

Hamlet's admission prices are pretty much Isthmian Prem level anyway I suspect. Given the upwards trend in costs to the club, I doubt admission prices will come down. It seems more likely to me the likely price rise had the club stayed up will be lessened or removed. We shall see.

 

[pengedragon]

My 12 year old now goes behind the goal with his mates and they very much consider themselves part of the rabble, that must be a good thing for the future of the club

 

[editor]

The constant moaning about key-jangling is deeply tedious. It's not really my cup of tea, but it's harmless fun, and something every single first-timer can get into and enjoy.

"Constant"? I made one light-hearted comment and then the personal abuse came my way. First time I've mentioned the key jangling in this thread (or anywhere else for ages for that matter).

 

[NPDHFC]

Just see his interview after yesterdays game
Never seen a manager look so down and gutted , almost on the point of tears
Gave a hint that if he was kept on their would be a major Clear-out

Hinted mind that he may be out the door as well

Let’s remember also that he’s literally just in the last few days repatriated his mother. Strength of character to be back in the dugout regardless, not surprising for him to be a bit emotional.