Democratic? No public enquiry on the 7/7 bombings.
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editor
hiraethified
To use your logic: how how many people do you know who would willingly travel down to London in a group and then all get on the tube at a set time to travel around crowded trains with large backpacks full of unknown substances strapped on to them?q_w_e_r_t_y said:
Try as I might, I can't think of a single person who'd agree to that. Can you?
Kid_Eternity
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
sparticus said:
Why not: Conspiraloons; cunts or useless cunts?
Haven't had time to catch up with all the posts as the kids only have half a day at school ... so this is rushed.
BK I don't know what happened on that day, and I have said that countless times. I have many opinions, but I don't see the wisdom in speculation and supposition. As two previous posters have pointed out, there are credible alternatives to the one we are being given.
As for the Khan video? My immediate instinct? I thought it was badly lip synced and I had no way of knowing if it really was him. I also watched an advert on the same day that I swear showed Gene Kelly break-dancing to singing in the rain, but I guess he couldn't have been.
On Channel 4 news that day, two friends of Mohammed Siddiqui Khan were shown the same video, they both exclaimed it wasn't him and didn't even sound like him. There was also a Radio 4 documentary called Koran and Country which interviewed a good friend of Khan's (known as Sid to his friends), who also said it wasn't him.
If you were shown a video of me and then heard my friends say it didn't sound like me what would you think?
The timing of the video was good, 6 weeks in, and it was the clincher for many who were questioning the events of that day.
BK I don't know what happened on that day, and I have said that countless times. I have many opinions, but I don't see the wisdom in speculation and supposition. As two previous posters have pointed out, there are credible alternatives to the one we are being given.
As for the Khan video? My immediate instinct? I thought it was badly lip synced and I had no way of knowing if it really was him. I also watched an advert on the same day that I swear showed Gene Kelly break-dancing to singing in the rain, but I guess he couldn't have been.
On Channel 4 news that day, two friends of Mohammed Siddiqui Khan were shown the same video, they both exclaimed it wasn't him and didn't even sound like him. There was also a Radio 4 documentary called Koran and Country which interviewed a good friend of Khan's (known as Sid to his friends), who also said it wasn't him.
If you were shown a video of me and then heard my friends say it didn't sound like me what would you think?
The timing of the video was good, 6 weeks in, and it was the clincher for many who were questioning the events of that day.
q_w_e_r_t_y
You see an investment scam and I see divinity
editor said:
I. don't. know.
That is why I want a full public enquiry.
Dont you find it even in the teensy bit strange that people would blow themselves and others up....or do you reckon that is perfectly normal behaviour and its a miracle that it doesnt happen every other day.
q_w_e_r_t_y
You see an investment scam and I see divinity
editor said:
But you know of loads presumably that would willinglytravel down to London in a group and then all get on the tube at a set time to travel around crowded trains with large backpacks full of explosive material strapped on to them then detonate them... making that a far more likely explaination.
editor
hiraethified
If you're intent on killing people through a misguided religious belief, yes.q_w_e_r_t_y said:
It happens elsewhere you know, sadly quite often.
Could you give me some examples of people meeting up to travel around rush hour transport systems with large bags full of unknown goods on their back, please?
John Loftus is no member of the natural law party, I searched for his FOX interview and found it on that site.
Why not find out who he really is, there's a good chap?
Why not find out who he really is, there's a good chap?
I have spouted no theories, just suggested the possibility that western intelligence agents may (or may not) have been involved and further suggested that only the terminally gullible (i.e. you) would dismiss the possibility
Do you deny my assertion that there is HARD EVIDENCE of historical precedents
Do you deny my assertion that there is HARD EVIDENCE of historical precedents
Badger Kitten
oof
I'm getting quite bored with answering your points again and again. Are you reading what I post? Or just selective bits and ignoring the bits where I trash your arguments?
Covered this already>
the Al Q inspiration for 7/7 was totally different to 9/11 as any fule can see. Prior to 9/11, Al Q was an organisation with training camps and leaders and what have you, and after it was a loose idealogy, ''inspiring'' small cells but not the same as it was pre-Afghanistan. In many ways, much more dangerous. You and I could start an 'Al Quaida cell', all we need is to buy into the ideas
Oh, so not at all biased then. I asked you whether you had investigated violent islamic jihad ideaology and the justifications given for martyrdom operations, which you have declined to answer
I think we are getting to the criux here. I don't know many suicide bombers socially, darling, no, they tend to keep themselves away from mainstream society, that's kind of the point. There is however, precedent for suicide bombings, and there is however an international idealogy that considers it martydom, and there is however a video of a suicide bomber kindly explaining all this to us, and there was however a man exploding on my train, so guess what I think?
I accept that just being on the train doesn't make me the expert, however, the contact with 90 other surviviors and the police and the train driver and the first responders means, sunshine, that i have had a lot mroe access to a lot more facts than you.
Soft targets. Welcome to how terrorism works - has it not been ever thus?
Crap. I am a damn sight more free than I would be in Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia or lots of other places. Only an idiot would say such a thing. Western democracy ain't perfect, but you want to try living as a 34 year old unmarried woman in Saudi Arabia or Iran.
This is not that similar to what is believed by extremists who blame western democracy for all their ills and consider that we deserved to be blown up. If you can believe all the above I have quoted without a qualm, why do you struggle with the idea that Khan et al may have felt similarly disillusioned, and chosen to ''achieve martyrdom'' whilst making their point?
Covered this already>
the Al Q inspiration for 7/7 was totally different to 9/11 as any fule can see. Prior to 9/11, Al Q was an organisation with training camps and leaders and what have you, and after it was a loose idealogy, ''inspiring'' small cells but not the same as it was pre-Afghanistan. In many ways, much more dangerous. You and I could start an 'Al Quaida cell', all we need is to buy into the ideasOh, so not at all biased then. I asked you whether you had investigated violent islamic jihad ideaology and the justifications given for martyrdom operations, which you have declined to answer
I think we are getting to the criux here. I don't know many suicide bombers socially, darling, no, they tend to keep themselves away from mainstream society, that's kind of the point. There is however, precedent for suicide bombings, and there is however an international idealogy that considers it martydom, and there is however a video of a suicide bomber kindly explaining all this to us, and there was however a man exploding on my train, so guess what I think?
I accept that just being on the train doesn't make me the expert, however, the contact with 90 other surviviors and the police and the train driver and the first responders means, sunshine, that i have had a lot mroe access to a lot more facts than you.
Soft targets. Welcome to how terrorism works - has it not been ever thus?
Crap. I am a damn sight more free than I would be in Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia or lots of other places. Only an idiot would say such a thing. Western democracy ain't perfect, but you want to try living as a 34 year old unmarried woman in Saudi Arabia or Iran.
This is not that similar to what is believed by extremists who blame western democracy for all their ills and consider that we deserved to be blown up. If you can believe all the above I have quoted without a qualm, why do you struggle with the idea that Khan et al may have felt similarly disillusioned, and chosen to ''achieve martyrdom'' whilst making their point?
q_w_e_r_t_y
You see an investment scam and I see divinity
editor said:
Courier companies. Not usually rucksacks, but certainly handluggage
Drug couriers. Usually avoid rush hours.
I am also not aware that it is claimed that the whole rucksack was a bomb, the majority of the contents might have been their own with only a small unknown bomb, seeing as it is not clear whether it was military grade or homemade it is difficult to estimate the room that it would take up, opening up a range of possibilities.
editor
hiraethified
Look, you blithering fruitspud, loonpie idiot: 'historical precendent' is NOT, repeat NOT "hard evidence" for any of the bonkers conspiraloon drivel being posted up about the 7th July. That is what you claimed you could provide.sparticus said:
(Not that there's any historical precedent for the government bombing tube trains with pretend suicide bombers, of course.)
Badger Kitten
oof
There's historical precedent for burning witches. People used to believe in a huge conspracy theory that the devil worked through hapless herbalists and midwives and hysterically shout for them to be killed, or no-one would be safe, they'd blame the devil and his agents, much as conspiraloons blame shadowy dark forces today for tragedies and murders. Historical precedent is just bollox and has shag all to do with the thread.
I said one of the reasons I wanted a public enquiry was to get conspiracy theorists to put a sock in it, still, this has all been quite exciting and got me though a slow day in the office, as well as allowing me to vent some of my irritation at the tripe I have seen peddled for the last 5 months
I said one of the reasons I wanted a public enquiry was to get conspiracy theorists to put a sock in it, still, this has all been quite exciting and got me though a slow day in the office, as well as allowing me to vent some of my irritation at the tripe I have seen peddled for the last 5 months
Badger Kitten
oof
Homemade: stank of peroxide and nail polish remover smell.
Badger Kitten
oof
editor said:Gotcha! So it was a gang of synchronised, rush-hour, long distance couriers all on their first job?!
I hope reality catches up with you sometime soon.
*claps Editor* nice.
Badger Kitten
oof
The <real name removed: editor> affair
Let's set the record straight for once and all. It's not a conspiracy to make a appalling mistake, and that's what happened here editor.
I can only go on what is in front of me. However, in the case of <real name removed: editor>, there is enough to firmly conclude that she was telling the truth.
It is notable how flawed the account of eyewitnesses at Stockwell were. For instance, we had Mark Whitby describing an Asian guy with a padded coat who acted like cornered fox receiving five shots. Another chap described two shots and a bomb belt. Many others claimed to have see him jump the barriers.
Everyone got it wrong. With the notable of one witness: <real name removed: editor>, who described 'at least ten shots' in her statement to the IPCC. This extraordinary amount was certainly not public information. We now know from that coroner's report that there were eleven shots in all. There is simply no way she could have known this, unless she was there.
On this fact alone we can conclude that <real name removed: editor> was genuine, and that is what I did. I then watched as all the reasons which anyone was willing to give that she was not crumbled. We had the 'lack of stairs at Stockwell' - there were stairs. Some people thought there was some discrepancy with the number of shots - there wasn't, her account of the number of shots was staggeringly accurate.
Stobart Spotter had another reason - her husband (a policeman) reckoned that the IPCC never give out copies of statements, as <real name removed: editor> claimed to have received. This was erroneous. I believe you missed the thread where we worked all this out, editor - here's the Guardian article from when she went to the press with her copy.
I have since met Sue, she's perfectly normal, in fact far more normal than most urbanites. Like bk, she has needed counselling to get over the traumatic events that day. A big issue for her during that counselling was the invalidation of her experience that she received here - she came to urban as a way of helping get over it. As badger kitten repeatedly informs us, it's not nice to go through something like that and then be told that it never happened - although no-one here is saying that to her.
Soon after getting booted off here she offered to show me her copy of the IPCC statement. She also offered to take me to the Stockwell nursery where she had to recover immediately after the shooting. I needed neither.
I don't know what else you have editor, I suspect you may be referring to the IPCC statement thing from Stobart. But whatever, it is your information that is mistaken and not Sue Thomason's account. On the Guardian article thread, moderators such as miss minnie appeared to distance themselves from the affair. It only seems to be you that still maintains the right thing was done. Which it wasn't.
Of course, if you do have some staggering information of relevance here, you are duty bound to report it to the IPCC, and there should be no reason why should be able to confirm here that you have so done.
Of course, the line 'I know what I am doing because I have secret information which you don't know about' was Tony Blair's too, and it took us to war with Iraq.
Sue T. has a look at this thread. She says;
"I had a look. How can you stand to spend any of your precious life on there?! They are the most hideous bunch of people I've ever come across in my entire life and even just reading that thread made me feel tense and stressed - and not even the bits about me!
...No wonder they argue with you, you're like a nurse in a mental hospital.
...next time something bad happens to me - if it does - I'll stick with friends and not worry about boring them and not turn to cyber freaks."
I'm beginning to wonder about her comment. I really love urban, it's been good to me. But well certainly, if urban75 is to turn into the 'badger kitten show'...
editor said:I see that the fact that you've been repeatedly been told that you don't know the full story behind that particular COMPLETELY UNRELATED story hasn't stop you rustling up another of your exciting "what really happened' fantasies.
Or do you think all the mods were "in on it" too?
Let's set the record straight for once and all. It's not a conspiracy to make a appalling mistake, and that's what happened here editor.
I can only go on what is in front of me. However, in the case of <real name removed: editor>, there is enough to firmly conclude that she was telling the truth.
It is notable how flawed the account of eyewitnesses at Stockwell were. For instance, we had Mark Whitby describing an Asian guy with a padded coat who acted like cornered fox receiving five shots. Another chap described two shots and a bomb belt. Many others claimed to have see him jump the barriers.
Everyone got it wrong. With the notable of one witness: <real name removed: editor>, who described 'at least ten shots' in her statement to the IPCC. This extraordinary amount was certainly not public information. We now know from that coroner's report that there were eleven shots in all. There is simply no way she could have known this, unless she was there.
On this fact alone we can conclude that <real name removed: editor> was genuine, and that is what I did. I then watched as all the reasons which anyone was willing to give that she was not crumbled. We had the 'lack of stairs at Stockwell' - there were stairs. Some people thought there was some discrepancy with the number of shots - there wasn't, her account of the number of shots was staggeringly accurate.
Stobart Spotter had another reason - her husband (a policeman) reckoned that the IPCC never give out copies of statements, as <real name removed: editor> claimed to have received. This was erroneous. I believe you missed the thread where we worked all this out, editor - here's the Guardian article from when she went to the press with her copy.
I have since met Sue, she's perfectly normal, in fact far more normal than most urbanites. Like bk, she has needed counselling to get over the traumatic events that day. A big issue for her during that counselling was the invalidation of her experience that she received here - she came to urban as a way of helping get over it. As badger kitten repeatedly informs us, it's not nice to go through something like that and then be told that it never happened - although no-one here is saying that to her.
Soon after getting booted off here she offered to show me her copy of the IPCC statement. She also offered to take me to the Stockwell nursery where she had to recover immediately after the shooting. I needed neither.
I don't know what else you have editor, I suspect you may be referring to the IPCC statement thing from Stobart. But whatever, it is your information that is mistaken and not Sue Thomason's account. On the Guardian article thread, moderators such as miss minnie appeared to distance themselves from the affair. It only seems to be you that still maintains the right thing was done. Which it wasn't.
Of course, if you do have some staggering information of relevance here, you are duty bound to report it to the IPCC, and there should be no reason why should be able to confirm here that you have so done.
Of course, the line 'I know what I am doing because I have secret information which you don't know about' was Tony Blair's too, and it took us to war with Iraq.
Sue T. has a look at this thread. She says;
"I had a look. How can you stand to spend any of your precious life on there?! They are the most hideous bunch of people I've ever come across in my entire life and even just reading that thread made me feel tense and stressed - and not even the bits about me!
...No wonder they argue with you, you're like a nurse in a mental hospital.
...next time something bad happens to me - if it does - I'll stick with friends and not worry about boring them and not turn to cyber freaks."
I'm beginning to wonder about her comment. I really love urban, it's been good to me. But well certainly, if urban75 is to turn into the 'badger kitten show'...
Jazzz said:I'm beginning to wonder about her comment. I really love urban, it's been good to me. But well certainly, if urban75 is to turn into the 'badger kitten show'...
What, as opposed to the Jazz conspiracy-cock hour, Also subtitled 'I've been proved wrong again and again, but still feel fit to insultingly insist on repeatedly voicing my conspiracy nonsense at every opportunity, regardless of the curreny lack of evidence to support my view and my humiliatingly bad record of inaccuracy in the past.'
Just leave it Jazzz. People who have been involved in such a horrific incident deserve better than you trying to belittle and twist their experiences to fit your conspiracy-filled view of the world.
Stick to drinking pentawater and misquoting distant websites. Please...
bristol_citizen
Well-Known Member
Shit. That's it then. We're not normal!!!Jazzz said:
Jazzz said:
Balls. I have been reading this thread and you appear to be pedalling your own warped agenda again. You also reveal quite a nasty little streak there with your rather childish (and spiteful) closing sentence. In light of the context of your post that makes you a hypocrite.
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