So did I, but the lyrics of Bankrobber are naive. 'Imagine if all the boys in jail could get out now together.' Yes Joe, I doubt if we would have seen you for dust.
David Starkey On Newsnight....
- Thread starter cantsin
- Start date
So did I, but the lyrics of Bankrobber are naive. 'Imagine if all the boys in jail could get out now together.' Yes Joe, I doubt if we would have seen you for dust.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
how do you think 'vital cultural-linguistic developments' come about? This particular one is just as vital as any other.
I'm terribly hurt.
Says another condescending 'down with the kids' middle class wannabe.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Why does language change, lletsa?
If you knew me, you would know that I am very far from 'down with the kids'. I do know something about how language works, though, as does Rutita.
If you knew me, you would know that I am very far from 'down with the kids'. I do know something about how language works, though, as does Rutita.
It's Jimmy Pursey.
You can't tell the difference between all forms of black music and white rock?
For lots of reasons. None of them take anything away, however, from the fact that what we're talking about is white kids mimicking a ridiculous caricature of a Caribbean accent.
As I said, nobody is guilty. In Manchester my generation introduced such vital innovations to the English language as 'angin' (meaning horrible, ugly etc.) But at least we said it in an accent that was our own.
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
agreed, but punk hardly went in for for considered, complex political analysis!
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Sorry, lletsa, but you take exactly the same line as Starkey on this. And you are every bit as wrong.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
That's your answer to everything..."so what"? You still don't get it do you? What do you think the lyrics to Boom Boom...Out Go the Lights mean? That he's going to turn off the lights at the end of the evening?
You've also wilfully ignored the most important point about all of this, namely the fact that R&B was seen by the white cultural establishment as a socio-cultural contaminant. I guess it never occurred to you to ask yourself why that is.
No I don't and no I'm not. I just recognise idiocy when I encounter it and, unlike some of you lot, don't condescendingly pander to it just because it comes from 'da yoof.'
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
how exactly does one 'pander' to another person's accent?
You do and you are. you may not realise it, but your posts reveal either unconscious or conscious racist attitudes of exactly the same kind that Starkey holds.
You do and you are. you may not realise it, but your posts reveal either unconscious or conscious racist attitudes of exactly the same kind that Starkey holds.
Sigh. You should have noticed by now that I'm not denying that. But it still remains that no other form of popular music has glorified murder and the 'gangsta' lifestyle etc as much as gangsta rap.
Is that clear enough for you now or should I repeat it again?
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
They're not "ditching their 'real accents". Those are their "real" accents. Like it or not, it's a product of urbanisation.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
Sour grapes, eh LLETSA?
Yes-I'm clearly being racist towards the little white imbeciles who mimic the fake accents of little black imbeciles.
Imbecility has no race.
About what?
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
in the inner cities of the big cities - but especially and above all London - we have a genuinely multi-cultural, multi-ethnic environment. Indigenous English white are if anything a minority in Tottenham. so how could the development of that patois - a phenomenon which is now decades old - by w/c youth (white AND black, and asian) be anything other than a 'cultural-linguistic development'?
I think we may be at cross-purposes here; you focussing solely on kids who adopt that patois without growing up in the social context of the environment where it developed, and me focussing mainly on the innercity w/c environment.
So - i'll say it again; there ARE large swathes of kids who do exactly as you say, but they are an irrelevance, albeit an irritating one.
The patois/dialect/whatsoever came as a natural reflection of the environment in which it developed (mainly, but not exclusively, London multi-racial w/c class society).
As dialects usually do.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
No they're not. As I've already said, their real accents are the ones they spoke with before they adopted this daft made up one we're discussing.
Face palm should really be reserved for fourth-rate fifty-odd year-old academics who try to identify with 'the kids.'
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
What's the point? I'd get more sense from a brick wall.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
You're a fucking self-parody.
Refused as fuck
"ethnic pakistani tosser"
surely their real accents were the ones they were born with?
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
Moving the goalposts again? Not like you at all.
Do you think London is the only place in the UK with 'a genuinely multi-cultural blah blah?
For what it's worth, I do not believe that the accent we're talking about is any less contrived in inner-city London than it is anywhere else.
It's not moving the goalposts, you old twit, it's what I've said all along. You're the one moving 'em by constantly posting up irrelevancies, commonplaces and platitudes.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
Is it fuck. You just don't like the idea that you're wrong. Now be a good lad and find another thread.
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
No, but it is EIGHT TIMES BIGGER than any other city, it was effectively where post-WW2 multi-cultural and multi-ethnic society started, and is still its' most prominent and obvious example.
Like it or not, London is simply more significant - in practically every way, in fact - than anywhere else in the UK.
Then not only are you very wrong, but just about everyone within a 5 mile radius of me would be utterly astounded at such an assertion. 'streetslang' dialect is simply by now something the kids pick up from their environment, and everyone around them, and is therefore - to w/c big city youth - a natural part of their linguistic armoury, how they communicate.
and whether you recognise that or not - that is the only truth inner London working class youth know, or recognise.
Similar threads
