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David Icke lecture @ Wembley Arena, October 2012

Wilf said:
But if you do take a structural view on power and inequalities and reject any kind of anti-semitism, why don't you put the maximum possible distance between yourself and Icke/conspiraloonery? I don't think all conspiracy theorists are anti-semitic, but it's a very wierd place to plant your flag if you want to genuinely oppose a racialised (and/or bloodline) dominated view of world history.
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I'm no fan of Icke, and have never said that I am, I can see why some would think otherwise, but I can assure you I'm not. And yes, I do consider myself a bit of a conspiracy nut, but that's becasue the world makes more sense to me that way. I try to keep away from the labels which are associated with it, but that's near impossible.
 
xes said:
and there are no conspiracies in capitalism? The world is just peachy. That's ok then *phew*
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Of course there are. Everyone knows that. But they're not the kind of conspiracies the theorists are talking about and we can't identify them by reading books by David Icke or Alex Jones, and in order to demonstrate that they exist we rely on greater standards of logic and evidence than your standard theorist. Nobody accuses Noam Chomsky of being a conspiracy theorist because his "theories" if you want to call them that are based on proper research, evidence and logic. Not, "oh, rich people are rich, powerful people are powerful, both do nasty shit so we must assume they're part of a secret cabal bent on the enslavement of mankind" or on "surely it's reasonable to believe that banking families control banks."

And besides, if we got rid of these conspiracies would capitalism then be ok?
 
xes said:
well, they're hardly going to say it to you, as you're not "a mental"
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Now why might that be? Why might people think I'm not a mental? Could it be that, rather than trying to get something out of Icke by ignoring the racism, I prefer to read proper research by credible writers. Not as easy, granted, and it doesn't allow you to think you know stuff that teh sheeple are too dumb to see, but it's worth it.
 
SpineyNorman said:
Now why might that be? Why might people think I'm not a mental? Could it be that, rather than trying to get something out of Icke by ignoring the racism, I prefer to read proper research by credible writers. Not as easy, granted, and it doesn't allow you to think you know stuff that teh sheeple are too dumb to see, but it's worth it.
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you didn't "come out" as a believer in aliens. The second I did that, peoples attitudes changed. Fact.
 
faux pas said:
Coming from a narrow little mind like yours... Thank you!
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Yeah ba, how can you be so small minded as to dismiss as nonsense theories based upon antisemitic forgeries that claim the queen, George Bush and Boxcar Willy (wtf?) are in fact fifth dimensional space lizards who come from a hollowed out spacecraft moon that's also a hologram.

Open your mind maaaaan!

E2A: Do you believe my TRUE (TM) theory about the rabbit planet faux pas? If not you're closed minded too. You dumb sheeple.
 
faux pas said:
Don't worry xes. It's lovely how they all cowardly group together and hound you, isn't it, lol.

I would imagine most people wouldn't refer to Icke as anti-semitic or racist, or would understand his beef with 'Rothchild Zionism' as anti-semitic. The hardcore leftests perhaps, but then they've never really been in touch, have they?
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In fairness to xes he's taken a helluva lot more shit than you and not ran away or attempted to ignore every fucking question put his way. Or have you had a change of heart and read up on what a hologram actually is? Y'know, light-waves of a particular, but completely innocuous kind.
 
xes said:
you didn't "come out" as a believer in aliens. The second I did that, peoples attitudes changed. Fact.
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Their attitudes to your detailed research work on the integration of financial and industrial capital since WW1? Or their attitudes to scrappy intuition based and unresreached claims such as you have made on this thread?
 
@XES - Fair enough and thanks for the specifics (re Icke). Sometimes your opponents can end up making guilt by association comments, perhaps on this thread at times. However don't you equally feel the need to put more obvious distance between yourself and what goes on in, shall we say, Icke related circles?
 
xes said:
But this is just what I have been trying to say. I have been trying to say that there is a banking conspiracy, I have been trying to say that it matters not a fuck, what religions the people are, and that there is a banking conspiracy. I have tried to say that you're not even allowed to mention a banking conspiracy, becasue when you do, the uppities accuse you of being anti semitic. Just look.
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The "conspiracy" is class - a minority own resources, the majority don't.
 
xes said:
who runs the banking system, if not the families who run the banks?
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Usually the institutional shareholders. They are, after all, the ones whose wishes hold sway when board members are elected, when remuneration packages are rubber-stamped, etc.
 
faux pas said:
Don't worry xes. It's lovely how they all cowardly group together and hound you, isn't it, lol.

I would imagine most people wouldn't refer to Icke as anti-semitic or racist, or would understand his beef with 'Rothchild Zionism' as anti-semitic. The hardcore leftests perhaps, but then they've never really been in touch, have they?
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So...the Protocols then...
 
icke said:
"In the very late 1800's, a controversial document came to light called the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion". I call them the Illuminati Protocols, and I quote many extracts from them in The Robots' Rebellion. Some say they were a forgery made public only to discredit Jews, and I use the term "Illuminati Protocols" to get away from the Jewish emphasis. If they were a forgery, something that is quite possible, what were they a forgery of, and by whom?"
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SpineyNorman said:
Of course there are. Everyone knows that. But they're not the kind of conspiracies the theorists are talking about and we can't identify them by reading books by David Icke or Alex Jones, and in order to demonstrate that they exist we rely on greater standards of logic and evidence than your standard theorist. Nobody accuses Noam Chomsky of being a conspiracy theorist because his "theories" if you want to call them that are based on proper research, evidence and logic. Not, "oh, rich people are rich, powerful people are powerful, both do nasty shit so we must assume they're part of a secret cabal bent on the enslavement of mankind" or on "surely it's reasonable to believe that banking families control banks."

And besides, if we got rid of these conspiracies would capitalism then be ok?
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it's the whole idea that if we changed the faces the system would be fine.
 
xes said:
I know, it's totally my fault that I saw what I saw, and had the fucking nerve to not ignore it. I am worse than hitler. :D
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It's not that, it's the getting from "I saw what I think might be ETs" to "Nibiru gekkos broke the space-time continuum in order to help the Jews fiddle the accounts so that the Holy Grail can be saved from the Illuminati". Only slightly taking the piss.
 
xes said:
no, you're not allowed to mention Jewish people and banks though, that means you hate ALL Jewish people :)
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No-one has said that. What they've said is that it's wrong to implicate (through use of the dog-whistle phrases "Rothschild Zionists" or "international bankers", for example) Jeiwsh people per se in the supposed or assumed actions of a tiny minority of Jewish people.
 
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