David Cameron's son dies, aged 6

[paulhackett]

you would like it to be, haveing seen the news dureing today all it has done is harden my feelings, fucking posture indeed?

fucking sick world we live in when we are told being honest is etc, then we have the likes of brown and others saying they feel etc, no still feel fuck all, gone of to posture in a vest with a gun rambo style, as one would..

fucking sick mother me, not to give a fuck of which i honastly do not give a fuck, so a six year old of tory scum bag dies and one is ment to give a shit?

And the difference between you and say a Westboro Baptist is what?

If you don't give a fuck, why post about it? Maybe your grandad would have been better off teaching you literacy and compassion - your point might come across better.

 

[Melinda]

you would like it to be, haveing seen the news dureing today all it has done is harden my feelings, fucking posture indeed?

fucking sick world we live in when we are told being honest is etc, then we have the likes of brown and others saying they feel etc, no still feel fuck all, gone of to posture in a vest with a gun rambo style, as one would..

fucking sick mother me, not to give a fuck of which i honastly do not give a fuck, so a six year old of tory scum bag dies and one is ment to give a shit?

You're a mother?

Im reluctant to say what I think because I fear you have mental health issues.

 

[marty21]

Oh erm that pushed a few dick heads, fucking feckless lifestyle indeed, what the fuck do you know about who and why i find myself in this circumstance, did you ask that of course not just jump to right wing asumptions and propaganda why not far more easy than haveing any debate, engageing with me aint it - to easy to just think one is a feckless layabout, but then debate from the likes of you has never been on any agenda has it? to be frank you sooner think of me how you do and then you say one has the problem yer right becuase i do not give a shit..

the thing is, you don't debate, you rant

 

[agricola]

And the difference between you and say a Westboro Baptist is what?

If you don't give a fuck, why post about it? Maybe your grandad would have been better off teaching you literacy and compassion - your point might come across better.

A WBC member would have celebrated the death - e19869 isnt.

 

[e19896]

You're a mother?

Im reluctant to say what I think because I fear you have mental health issues.

oh dear how crass people are?

yes i have mental health issues would this mean then i can not think, act, etc, that i need help, quick phone up the doc man says he dont give a shit about a six year old dyeing, says he is one sick mother oh fuck we are the moral majority and we know we are right, and if we say you have mental health issues that must be it, the reson you do not give a shit, so fucking easy is it not to dismiss someone, based on the social order..

 

[Melinda]

oh dear how crass people are?

yes i have mental health issues would this mean then i can not think, act, etc, that i need help, quick phone up the doc man says he dont give a shit about a six year old dyeing, says he is one sick mother oh fuck we are the moral majority and we know we are right, and if we say you have mental health issues that must be it, the reson you do not give a shit, so fucking easy is it not to dismiss someone, based on the social order..

You have the front to call people crass? Mother or not, thats some pair of balls on you.

You are here spewing hate and filth. I was giving you a break.

 

[paulhackett]

oh dear how crass people are?

yes i have mental health issues would this mean then i can not think, act, etc, that i need help, quick phone up the doc man says he dont give a shit about a six year old dyeing, says he is one sick mother oh fuck we are the moral majority and we know we are right, and if we say you have mental health issues that must be it, the reson you do not give a shit, so fucking easy is it not to dismiss someone, based on the social order..

Are you typing or just wiping your arse on the keyboard, as uncannily everything you say reads like shit.

 

[scifisam]

Very sad for him and his family.

The sad part is about modern politics is that one imagines the vast majority of people would not be surprised if they did - either of the "A good day to bury bad news" kind or the more traditional mawkishness.

Dont know if anyone read Guido earlier but he made a good point:

PMQs Cancelled

Guido's sympathies are with the Camerons. However cancelling PMQs is not the right response. The show must go on, every week the names of sons who have fallen in Afghanistan and Iraq are read out and sympathies are offered. Democracy does not halt for those sons.

I think it makes sense when the leader of the opposition is the one whose son died, and Hague and other senior shadow cabinet ministers most likely knew that child too, and definitely know his parents very well - and Gordon Brown lost a child of his own not that long ago, so might be genuinely very upset by this. Democracy can't halt for every child or adult that dies, but PMQs (which is hardly the whole of democracy) can when one of the lead participants in PMQs suffers such a personal loss.

Peter Mandleson did it seems, he brought forward a lords debate by one day as it would coincide with coverage of the death...

Utter fucking bastard.

I actually am a little surprised that at least one politician has used this child's death as "A good day to bury bad news." Last time someone tried to do that, they at least got into big trouble for it.

 

[goldenecitrone]

Are you typing or just wiping your arse on the keyboard, as uncannily everything you say reads like shit.

How old are you? 12?

 

[Melinda]

How old are you? 12?

He's engaging with enumbers at the level s/he deserves.

Was Ivan Cameron's death dignified enough for you btw?

 

[paulhackett]

How old are you? 12?

I can see how having your trolling thunder stolen by a 12 year old must be galling for you.

I'm really really sorry for attempting to jump in on a cancer/ death thread before you've had a chance to contribute some sardonic comment.

Point taken. I won't do it again without running it past you first.

 

[cantsin]

I've seen him speak about his son before and even for a politico, it was very moving and quite humbling.

One can only hope that he brings similar sentiments if, when, he gets elected.

Very sad news for all concerned though.

if only all his proclaimations on the support his families had from the NHS in any way fitted in with the continued approach of The Tories to NHS - ie: support for creeping privatisation via PFI and crunching of the health budget long term as taxes are lowered .

But then , as Cameron freely admits ,as a family with huge inherited wealth, they always supplemented their NHS care for Ivan with private help -you can't actually buy better surgical / specialist treatment than the NHS provides, it's not available privately, so that's where the Camerons went - but in terms of day to day round the clock care and support for carers, you're either v rich like them and pay for it, or you devote your life to it like so many others have to.
Not nice .

 

[e19896]

He's engaging with enumbers at the level s/he deserves.

Was Ivan Cameron's death dignified enough for you btw?

If that is engagement i deserve then oh dear, we are fucked.. what someone says something you do not agree with or like and all the abuse comes from the mouths of some people, if this is your leval of debate, your means of engaging with myself, i know what fuck it..

we talked about this today, and not one person in my group of friends disagreed with my comments, holy shit more deranged anarchist then?

next you will be telling me i eat babys, (well that part is true) at least..

 

[In Bloom]

we talked about this today, and not one person in my group of friends disagreed with my comments, holy shit more deranged anarchist then?

You are not an anarchist.

 

[Melinda]

If that is engagement i deserve then oh dear, we are fucked.. what someone says something you do not agree with or like and all the abuse comes from the mouths of some people, if this is your leval of debate, your means of engaging with myself, i know what fuck it..

we talked about this today, and not one person in my group of friends disagreed with my comments, holy shit more deranged anarchist then?

next you will be telling me i eat babys, (well that part is true) at least..

Enumbers, you ranted and spewed off key abuse for 2 pages. Fair enough, you can post what you like.

However, you cant then bemoan some people reacting negatively to you and refusing to engage at all.

It was you being rabidly offensive. Go back a page and read where I listed your most vituperative posts.

How is anyone supposed to debate with you in those circumstances?

Be as passionate as you like, but if you fling shit folk will treat you accordingly- imo.

 

[marty21]

If that is engagement i deserve then oh dear, we are fucked.. what someone says something you do not agree with or like and all the abuse comes from the mouths of some people, if this is your leval of debate, your means of engaging with myself, i know what fuck it..

we talked about this today, and not one person in my group of friends disagreed with my comments, holy shit more deranged anarchist then?

next you will be telling me i eat babys, (well that part is true) at least..

get your many many friends who agree with you to post on here in support

 

[Azrael]

Democracy can't halt for every child or adult that dies, but PMQs (which is hardly the whole of democracy) can when one of the lead participants in PMQs suffers such a personal loss.

I agree. PMQ should be suspended for a week as a practical and compassionate measure. agricola makes a good point though: I'd like to see politicians do more to respect the deaths of service men and women. No repeats of Mr Blair's disgraceful ignoring of a request to meet relatives of fallen soldiers.

As for Mr Cameron, I have no time for his policies, but that's entirely by the by in this matter. My sympathies to him and his family.

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

if only all his proclaimations on the support his families had from the NHS in any way fitted in with the continued approach of The Tories to NHS - ie: support for creeping privatisation via PFI and crunching of the health budget long term as taxes are lowered .

But then , as Cameron freely admits ,as a family with huge inherited wealth, they always supplemented their NHS care for Ivan with private help -you can't actually buy better surgical / specialist treatment than the NHS provides, it's not available privately, so that's where the Camerons went - but in terms of day to day round the clock care and support for carers, you're either v rich like them and pay for it, or you devote your life to it like so many others have to.
Not nice .

No it isn't but at least you have a person who has direct experience of what a struggle in can be to be a good parent under difficult circumstances. Don't get me wrong, I'm not here to eulogise or sing his praises, but if you've seen this bloke talk in public about his opinions and experiences of being the parent of a severely disabled child, you would understand that it has had a significant impact on his understanding of the world.

The fact that many Tories want to privatise the whole fucking kit and caboodle might actually be affected by him. It might not but I think it's more likely tbf. Of course his wealth cushions him to a large degree, but it does mean that he understands the particular pressures of bringing up a disabled child. The rewards, the demands, the stuff that money can't buy essentially.

And i'm very much for dealing with what we have, as much as wanting to change it. He has gone on record as supporting the basic concept of the NHS, free healthcare and social care. Of course these fuckers lie about their actual intents and of course there's a great deal of self interest but you can't argue with the fact that the NHS (as a policy) is an extremely good thing in priniciple. Operationally, you can always say that these can be improved. But there's billions sloshing around in the background of this operation and to believe that Cameron has an interest in disrupting that would be naive.

Private health care and insurance is another thing completely, imo, its definitely an objective, you can create 'virtual marketplaces' by using taxes collected to distribute to citizens as personal budgets and letting them consume whichever service they wish to procure.

 

[e19896]

You are not an anarchist.

so do tell then? your defantion of what you think one is, idd say anarchist as in Emma Golman etc, just a crass comment you made or do you desire a debate on what anarchism is?

Oh yes the friends are anarchist and also eat childran:

 

[goldenecitrone]

He's engaging with enumbers at the level s/he deserves.

Was Ivan Cameron's death dignified enough for you btw?

Yes, as was his life.

 

[In Bloom]

idd say anarchist as in Emma Golman

O RLY?

"I did not believe that a Cause which stood for a beautiful ideal, for anarchism, for release and freedom from convention and prejudice, should demand the denial of life and joy. I insisted that our Cause could not expect me to become a nun and that the movement would not be turned into a cloister. If it meant that, I did not want it. "I want freedom, the right to self-expression, everybody's right to beautiful, radiant things." Anarchism meant that to me, and I would live it in spite of the whole world — prisons, persecution, everything. Yes, even in spite of the condemnation of my own closest comrades I would live my beautiful ideal." - Emma Goldman, Living My Life

"no i can not to be honest not one, given the circumstance of said child and it is given i might seem a prat a cunt so fourth, but my anarchism and class pride holds here, i can not have any feelings to do so would weaken me.." - enumbers, on the death of a disabled six year old boy

 

[cantsin]

O RLY?

"I did not believe that a Cause which stood for a beautiful ideal, for anarchism, for release and freedom from convention and prejudice, should demand the denial of life and joy. I insisted that our Cause could not expect me to become a nun and that the movement would not be turned into a cloister. If it meant that, I did not want it. "I want freedom, the right to self-expression, everybody's right to beautiful, radiant things." Anarchism meant that to me, and I would live it in spite of the whole world — prisons, persecution, everything. Yes, even in spite of the condemnation of my own closest comrades I would live my beautiful ideal." - Emma Goldman, Living My Life

"no i can not to be honest not one, given the circumstance of said child and it is given i might seem a prat a cunt so fourth, but my anarchism and class pride holds here, i can not have any feelings to do so would weaken me.." - enumbers, on the death of a disabled six year old boy

tell you what, you attackiing e1986 cos he / she refuses to get emotional on a msg forum over the death of one child , when 20 000 die everyday from preventable causes in the developing world because of the colonial legacy and systematic explotiation by the likes of Cameron, his relatives, and their class , is NAUSEATING .

get a grip ffs

 

[ViolentPanda]

tell you what, you attackiing e1986 cos he / she refuses to get emotional on a msg forum over the death of one child , when 20 000 die everyday from preventable causes in the developing world because of the colonial legacy and systematic explotiation by the likes of Cameron, his relatives, and their class , is NAUSEATING .

get a grip ffs

Most deaths are a tragedy to someone, whether they're inevitable or avoidable. Just because Cameron is an exploiter doesn't mean that his son's death becomes ignorable, or a reason for contempt, unless you're a believer in "the sins of the father" being visited upon their children. Are you?

 

[In Bloom]

tell you what, you attackiing e1986 cos he / she refuses to get emotional on a msg forum over the death of one child , when 20 000 die everyday from preventable causes in the developing world because of the colonial legacy and systematic explotiation by the likes of Cameron, his relatives, and their class , is NAUSEATING .

get a grip ffs

Ivan Cameron was a child, with no understanding of class, capitalism or politics. His death is no more tragic than the deaths of children in the developing world, but the death of a child is always a terrible thing, whoever the parents are.

 

[N_igma]

tell you what, you attackiing e1986 cos he / she refuses to get emotional on a msg forum over the death of one child , when 20 000 die everyday from preventable causes in the developing world because of the colonial legacy and systematic explotiation by the likes of Cameron, his relatives, and their class , is NAUSEATING .

get a grip ffs

Weak strawman is weak.

 

[agricola]

Most deaths are a tragedy to someone, whether they're inevitable or avoidable. Just because Cameron is an exploiter doesn't mean that his son's death becomes ignorable, or a reason for contempt, unless you're a believer in "the sins of the father" being visited upon their children. Are you?

Did e19896 treat the death with contempt though? He/she just said she wasnt bothered by it - admittedly for spurious reasons of class loyalty, but she/he is at least being honest.

This death is a tragedy for the family, but it does not affect most of the rest of us - any more than the other dead children on that day affected us. We have successfully managed to ignore all of those dead kids (because neither they nor there parents were worthy of national attention), so why not this?

It is also, as has been said, somewhat concerning that there have already been a smattering of articles suggesting that this tragedy, and Cameron's experience of caring for a disabled child, means that the NHS is "safe" in Camerons' hands - which is almost certainly not the case.

 

[_angel_]

It is also, as has been said, somewhat concerning that there have already been a smattering of articles suggesting that this tragedy, and Cameron's experience of caring for a disabled child, means that the NHS is "safe" in Camerons' hands - which is almost certainly not the case.

Well, this last bit's certainly true enough. People seem to think Cameron (or Brown come to it) can do no wrong because they have personal experience of disability -- at the same time they're pushing thru some of the harshest reforms to disability and sickness benefits.

 

[cantsin]

Weak strawman is weak.

I'm not sure what you meant by that , but it sounds kinda cool

 

[Das Uberdog]

Can't believe how many docile fuckers have fallen for this emotional bullshit. Fuck Cameron and his son:- worse things happen to thousands of people across the world we never even hear about. Why don't you go tell some slum-kids in Rio about Cameron's kid and see how many of them feel the need to shed a tear about it.

Common humanity=liberal crock of shite. Go read some fucking Eagleton - the ruling classes have been using this bilge to blunt the class-war for centuries now, you'd have thought Urban's class warriors would have wisened abit by now. Common humanity is a socialist ideal, not a present day reality, in which the blatant material contradictions between different lives form the basis for any serious social perspective.

 

[trashpony]

Can't believe how many docile fuckers have fallen for this emotional bullshit. Fuck Cameron and his son:- worse things happen to thousands of people across the world we never even hear about. Why don't you go tell some slum-kids in Rio about Cameron's kid and see how many of them feel the need to shed a tear about it.

Common humanity=liberal crock of shite. Go read some fucking Eagleton - the ruling classes have been using this bilge to blunt the class-war for centuries now, you'd have thought Urban's class warriors would have wisened abit by now. Common humanity is a socialist ideal, not a present day reality, in which the blatant material contradictions between different lives form the basis for any serious social perspective.

I was reading Eagleton when you were probably watching Dangermouse. That doesn't mean I don't feel empathy for a family that has lost a child. It's a false dichotomy.