Creating "Lexit": What is to be done?

[brogdale]

The initial point of focus just needs to be something people are already doing, already concerned about, that isn't being imposed from outside the class. There isn't a magic formula. But once there's momentum we want there to be a myriad of self starting, mutually supportive struggles. Maximum antagonism between us and those who give orders but amongst ourselves a politics that is complementary and mutually reinforcing.

I'm sure that by this stage of the crisis Syriza would have had teams going in to support the old & vulnerable waiting for days on end on trollies in A&E corridors/waiting rooms.

 

[danny la rouge]

I'm sure that by this stage of the crisis Syriza would have had teams going in to support the old & vulnerable waiting for days on end on trollies in A&E corridors/waiting rooms.

That sounds like a good idea.

 

[Wilf]

I'm sure that by this stage of the crisis Syriza would have had teams going in to support the old & vulnerable waiting for days on end on trollies in A&E corridors/waiting rooms.

In this country the hospital managers would probably have you tasered if you tried that.

 

[Louis MacNeice]

The NHS could provide a useful focus on three counts:

1. Where's the £350 million we were told we'd have to spend on what we want...we want to spend it on looking after each other.

2. No sell off to US health corporations; people didn't vote for national sovereignty over EU sovereignty only to have it replaced by corporate sovereignty.

3. Controlling our borders means being able to recruit the staff we need to help us care for each other. It doesn't mean disliking foreigners. It does mean providing secure, decently paid jobs.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

 

[Magnus McGinty]

There's already NHS campaigns though.
What's with the aversion to door knocking to enquire about local concerns? The IWCA were right.

 

[Louis MacNeice]

There's already NHS campaigns though.
What's with the aversion to door knocking to enquire about local concerns? The IWCA were right.

I think you need local focus and a big picture. The NHS provides a useful frame for the big picture; the fact that it is being campaigned about is actually a bonus in this regard. Bringing together and sustaining the necessary local work (identifying and helping to respond to needs) and the big picture stuff is tricky; wouldn't that be part of the remit of any meaningful 'Lexit' campaign?

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

 

[Magnus McGinty]

I think you need local focus and a big picture. The NHS provides a useful frame for the big picture; the fact that it is being campaigned about is actually a bonus in this regard. Bringing together and sustaining the necessary local work (identifying and helping to respond to needs) and the big picture stuff is tricky; wouldn't that be part of the remit of any meaningful 'Lexit' campaign?

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

I don't disagree with this, but the central plank being discussed here is 'making ourselves relevant to the class' (if I've understood correctly) and so cherry picking some campaign that would be beneficial to the WC is just another way of avoiding engaging them. I'm not saying you were suggesting that but it's what the left does and it boils my piss.

 

[redsquirrel]

I remember back in the early days of the IWCA the plan being to literally door knock and ask people...

There must be a more efficient way in these tech days?

There certainly are more hi-tech ways of getting feedback, whether they are more efficient I'm not sure.

I'm currently involved in a union campaign in my workplace, we've used email/internet surveys etc to try and get our message across but the most successful method, the one that gets you the highest % of 'hits' if you like is still door-knocking (for example less than 50% of members even bother to open (let alone read) the emails we send them). Both because people like the fact that you've gone to that effort and because you can discuss things on a more individual basis.

I don't think any of these alternatives replaces door-knocking, though they can be used to supplement it.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

An early rhetorical necessity is to detatch a perception that scrutiny and critique of this tory form of Brexit equates with a rejection or blocking of Brexit per se, that we are "anti democratic" and all that "will of the people" myth.

What ought to be a simple distinction (made by Plaid and The Greens) turns out to be something that "journalists" tend to assume us too thick to comprehend (if they even comprehend it themselves).

It's bizarre how stupid "debate" has become. By such means, there has been a capitulation to fascist infected here-and-now brexit by people too scared to stand up to the obvious. Leaving doesnt mean you just leave ASAP and let the tories run the whole show without consultation. Oh wait, it does. So in many ways its too late for now and only a left or left-ish victory at a general election will really have a hope of sorting things.

In the meantime, I think some of the suggestions on this thread are reasonable enough. We especially need to protect friends, colleagues and comrades from Europe from having their freedom suppressed by the monoculturalists.

As for opposing the virulent fascism and racism around this topic, perhaps it would have been helpful if fewer people hadn't insisted for so long that it was out of order to say racism is racist (often one was accused of "shouting" it).

Naive leftists, liberals and conservative apologists have created an atmosphere where even the most disgusting bigotry will see hoardes of privileged whitesplainer chin-strokers pondering "hmm...but is it really racist?". Throw in some cut and paste distraction about "listening to concerns". The vast majority of these dont risk being victims of racism, so it's ok for them.

It all goes alongside the age old bleat of the racist themselves (HOW DARE YOU SAY I'M RACIST - YOU ARE CLOSING DOWN DEBATE blah blah)

Saying racism is racist has long been the third wire of UK political discourse. It would be nice to see that trend receed but so many people have invested in it for such a long time.

 

[DotCommunist]

hordes

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

hordes

Quite right, soz.

 

[DotCommunist]

Naive leftists, liberals and conservative apologists have created an atmosphere where even the most disgusting bigotry will see hoardes of privileged whitesplainer chin-strokers pondering "hmm...but is it really racist?". Throw in some cut and paste distraction about "listening to concerns". The vast majority of these dont risk being victims of racism, so it's ok for them.

this is the sort of thing you've never been good at and the OP was trying to avoid tho. Just sayin

 

[redsquirrel]

What definitely is not to be done is, in Mark Blyth's words, to put a third (or whatever) of the electorate on the naughty step and tell them they're racists and we won't have anything to do with them.

I mean even if it was the case if you're writing off that many people how do you expect to win?

 

[danny la rouge]

Naive leftists, liberals and conservative apologists have created an atmosphere where even the most disgusting bigotry will see hoardes of privileged whitesplainer chin-strokers pondering "hmm...but is it really racist?". Throw in some cut and paste distraction about "listening to concerns". The vast majority of these dont risk being victims of racism, so it's ok for them.

Why did you think this had a place on this thread?

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

this is the sort of thing you've never been good at and the OP was trying to avoid tho. Just sayin

I appreciate that it is a common view on the left that saying racism is racist is best avoided for a variety of reasons. It's something I have long doubted and challenged.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

What definitely is not to be done is, in Mark Blyth's words, to put a third (or whatever) of the electorate on the naughty step and tell them their racists and we won't have anything to do with them.

I mean even if it was the case if you're writing off that many people how do you expect to win?

Personally I'm not doing that.

Though it's a standard and successful straw man to put forth that people who think that racism is a factor in the broader push for Brexit automatically assume that 17 million people are racist. It's a stupid lie, and stupid lies are proven to be highly successful in politics.

 

[DotCommunist]

perhaps you could challenge it on another thread? This is precisely the sort of shouty stuff the OP pretty explicitly requests we don't go down

 

[stethoscope]

I appreciate that it is a common view on the left that saying racism is racist is best avoided for a variety of reasons. It's something I have long doubted and challenged.

You could always make up another fake working class 'thicko' voice on your blog to prove it.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

You could always make up another fake working class 'thicko' voice on your blog to prove it.

Class hasnt much to do with it overall. The bitter bourgeoisie and the elite press barons are a far bigger problem, and I take the piss out of them a great deal. I do understand though that the right need to set up the myth that anti-racist is synonymous with anti working class ("liberal elites" etc.) It's been very successful and lots of leftists have bought into it.

As much as people may not think it relevant to the broader discussion, I'm afraid it is because attacks on immigrants are not going away. They serve too many political purposes.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

Separately, I'm interested to see what people think regarding the fact that critiquing this Tory (and fascist infected) Brexit is not synonymous with opposing Brexit per se. It should be an obvious distinction but escaped vast swathes of the Labour Party.

 

[stethoscope]

Anyway, back to the thread. I think that it has to happen on two levels:

That any strong left leave voice was unsurprisingly absent throughout the EU ref when both capital and media interests were invested in remain and right-leave. In fact the most vocal stuff I heard was from the Morning Star, and some statements put out by ASLEF/RMT (in terms of more publicly recognisable 'names'). The latter's voice was rather drowned out by many of the other unions, and the TUC. And yet, there was strong pro-working class and anti-neoliberal ground to get out there - the EUs involvement in forced austerity over Greece, and what's recently been happening with weakening France workers rights. That the 'social chapter' era of the EU is long gone, and its been following an aggressively neoliberal path ever since - its opening up and liberalisation of markets and how that further privatises public services, how that affects workers rights and pushes down wages, etc. So, some sort of left-leave campaign/coalition of groups in that sense would be internet, email based, etc.

However, filling the void of the left in terms of electoral politics (especially Labour) means actually reaching people and going back to doing the hard work on the ground and in communities. The IWCA had success with going back to this approach which parties have largely forgotten until they are desperate for someone's vote at local/general election time. Communicating on the doorstep and possibly through alliances with local campaigns and direct action groups such as those defending social housing, etc. is a way to achieve this too. I've been involved in action in this area over the last few months - whereby not only does it allow to fight for the primary aim of social housing, but also allows to build up 'consciousness' again - empowering disconnected people to stand up against other issues local to them, but to also help in fighting against the infiltration of the right to feed off such situations. It can develop initially 'single issue' politics and local campaigns into wider vehicles.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

You're not still doing that daft blog with forced spelling mistakes are you?

Oops not in response to stethoscope obvs.

 

[seventh bullet]

Taff, if you can't see how wrong your caricaturing of poor working class people is then you're the enemy too. Why has been discussed so many times already on other threads.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

Caricaturing stupid racists has not been raised by me on this thread and has nothing to do with means or social class. Still, if it helps people avoid the live issue of raw and rising racism then I guess standing in the way of that is futile.

And the other separate point I raised first and most recently hasn't been spoken to once yet.

 

[Treacle Toes]

taffboy gwyrdd Can you share what ideas you have or any examples of how we might move forward? What can be done to address these issues as you see/experience them? Have you been involved in anything that felt meaningful and/or showed success?

 

[rubbershoes]

All that remains left to do is to take a massive shit in a tesco carrier bag and leave it on the doorstep of No. 10

And what better way to celebrate your birthday

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Anyway, on topic. What groups are currently doing campaigns around the NHS? Worth making inroads and collaborating with existing stuff? I know The People's Assembly are.

 

[Treacle Toes]

Anyway, on topic. What groups are currently doing campaigns around the NHS? Worth making inroads and collaborating with existing stuff? I know The People's Assembly are.

Do you have any accessible/local to you?...I would start there personally if this is to be your focus.

 

[chilango]

Pondering danny la rouge's mention of the Panthers, thinking about housing being an issue addressed by squatting movements and wondering how we can approach the NHS in a similar, empowering manner.

The danger (for me) of a focus on the NHS is that it becomes a campaign of demands rather than a collective "taking no of matters into our own hands" as it were.

Unless Im missing something?(which, as always is quite likely!)

Just thinking out loud...

 

[emanymton]

Anyway, on topic. What groups are currently doing campaigns around the NHS? Worth making inroads and collaborating with existing stuff? I know The People's Assembly are.

For what it's worth there is this comming up.
It's Our NHS National Demonstration - Saturday 4 March, London