totaladdict
Well-Known Member
So? Maybe he'd rather work on a farm...Smølfine said:
countryside riot in london!
- Thread starter DaveCinzano
- Start date
past caring
The Cathars were right
Someone do me a favour - who the fuck is General Llud? It's obviously a name change and maybe I should be able to pick it up through the posting style, but I'm stumped.........
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Mean old muthafucka - took me some time as well
totaladdict
Well-Known Member
Eh?Red Jezza said:
(I have read the thread btw, just thought that needed questionning even though it was way back on page 6.)
totaladdict
Well-Known Member
True... nice bit of solidarity btw....Smølfine said:
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Sack of spuds and all that? It is, of course, (stagist, anachronistic) bollocks.totaladdict said:
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
there are very strong rural traditions of tradition, deference, 'everyone knowing their place' and insularity. these traditions die hard.totaladdict said:
You want proof? hang out in deepest rural Gloucestershire or hunting territory.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
I do - i don't accept that they exist other than as an idealised version of past social relations. Most rural w/c relationships nowadays are based on the brute force of wage labour - there are no deferent peasnts, there are very few people dependent upon the local landowner - what there is, is nornal wage labour and nornal class war and hatred. This is not serf territory.Red Jezza said:
totaladdict
Well-Known Member
I do live in countryside, Jezza.Red Jezza said:
An you're talking bollocks, bor.
Buzz sw9 said:
So only things that are for the benefit of working people should be discussed in Parliament then - all animal welfare laws of the last however many hundred years were a waste of time, were they?
We shouldn't bother ourselves with people who abuse and torture animals - after all, they're going to die anyway aren't they?
Perhaps we should disband the RSPCA - what a waste of time that is!
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
I'm not saying it's all tugged forelocks round your way, or that rural communities are mired in the 50s, on the top of a choccy box tin. I also agree that this tradition has grown less in my life (mainly due, I'd surmise to changing social & economic patterns), and less influential - but I'd maintain you can still see it. It will die out, but god knows when. And it is certainly part of rural social history. I'd also say the 'tradition' element (cf. 'we do things this way cos we always have - it's our way') and the insularity will completely disappear last, long after that deference; like most psycho-social relationships, it is complex and cannot be quantified or broken down into constituent parts.butchersapron said:
but it's something I've still noticed strong signs of, whenever I spend long periods in rural areas - revealing slips here and there, a distrust of the new/urban, a slowness to challenge received wisdoms.
finally - I've noticed this a lot in 'horsey' areas. with a lot of hunting or stables
Kaka Tim
Half Arsed and Slapdash till I Die
General Ludd said:You may have thought they wore red coats cause they were posh fox hunting tossers but secretly they've been plotting commie revolution.
(I'd bet there are proportionally more working class people on this march, and more working class people who go fox hunting, than were at any of the anti-war marches though)
Sorry but thats Bollocks.
I remember reading that there were 10,000 millionaires on the last cunt ryside alliance march.
I'll be surprised if there were more than 10 on the antiwar one.
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
I refer you to my answer to butchersapron, as his post was what you would have said, given sufficient time and thought.totaladdict said:
totaladdict
Well-Known Member
Yes! Down with country traditions - can't have the peasants feeling a sense of community!
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
But your personal notices really don't add up to to a hill of beans when mounted aginst the massive changes of work structure and patterns that have occoured down here over the last 25 years mate. Your's reads like something out of a post-WW1 middle class novel rather than the reality.
totaladdict
Well-Known Member
ACtually, sorry about that post.
No time now though, footy training....
No time now though, footy training....
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
huh? you wha'?totaladdict said:
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
again - impossible to quantify. yes, there have been huge changes (the great farming disaster, for one), and yes they add up, collectively, to a far greater impact than my oral history. impossible to disagree with that.butchersapron said:
but I am talking about things which I have noticed over my past 38 years. again - I repeat, I've noticed these mainly in horse country. equally, I may be overstating, as this is my personal perspective. If I've misinterpreted or misread, my hands are up. I've certainly not noticed militancy etc like I found,say, Armthorpe '84. If there is greater W/C solidarity - excellent.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Ah, but now you're tying the existence of wage labour up with an automatic solidarity...but yes, i do think you'e overstating - and that, to a great extent you miss the core dynamics behind 'country life' today - but you're still a good 'un 
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
fair enough!butchersapron said:Ah, but now you're tying the existence of wage labour up with an automatic solidarity...but yes, i do think you'e overstating - and that, to a great extent you miss the core dynamics behind 'country life' today - but you're still a good 'un
Clintons Cat
Walks Like A Twat.
General Ludd said:
I agree
i have only skimed the thread so appologies if this has been already been mentioned,but at the time of the liberty and livelihood march the CA,with the help of the EDP*1 did seem to be trying to build a widespread grassroots campaign taking on board genuine rural concerns about fuel increases (which does significantly and disproportionately affect the rural wc,where public transport is non existant),low wages,lack of affordable housing,rural deprivation,inward and outward migration as well as concerns about job insecurity linked to both the scrapping of CAP and Banning Foxhunting,and Bank and Sub post office closures .By no means were the large numbers of people on the L+L march their on a single issue campaign.
Yet the whole march was represented as being about Fox hunting the other concerns which drew people to the march were either marginalised or ignored altogether.subsequent interviews with CA organisers does seem to bear this out that in their minds Foxhunting was the prime motivation for the organisers but to the grassroots their concerns go much deeper.
Sad but fucking true.
*1 Eastern Daily Press
Why don't the swp forget about being the vanguard of the working class and instead adopt these ca types and be their vanguard.They said themselves that its wrong to hold on to"shiboleths" so its not going too much against trot doctrine.
Then when the've led middle england to a succesful revolution and smashed the capitalist state they can put all the yokels/toffs ect into a concentration camp and allow the w/c to take over.
Then when the've led middle england to a succesful revolution and smashed the capitalist state they can put all the yokels/toffs ect into a concentration camp and allow the w/c to take over.
Further to that, rural bosses gave up on any pretence of being part of an older, patriachical, moral economy and the working class followed very soon after, if not before. In economic relationships I don't think any deference still exists. Wearing wellies and drinking cider doesn't make rural working class people dupes! (Whilst there are cultural and linguistic remnants of this they are, in my opinion, rather irrelevant when it comes to actual class relationships.)
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