Karl Masks
Birds Angel Delight
Oh Femi
Cost of Living Crisis: Enough is Enough Campaign
- Thread starter Smokeandsteam
- Start date
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
Really? You don't think its odd to attack the RMT and CWU for the failings of trade unions in health and social care?
It's especially strange given that Lynch and Dempsey have repeatedly pointed out recently - correctly in my view - that one of the finest achievements of the RMT has been to retain terms and conditions, to maintain a mediated set of arrangements covering the organization of work and to win fair pay awards in an industry that has been privatised and subject to political attacks by government. The same can be said for Royal Mail and BT workers as far as I can see. One of the founding principles of EiE has been a recognition that similar arrangements are urgently needed by workers across the economy and the question of co-ordinated and planned work to organsied cleaners has been raised: ‘You don’t think strikes are the answer? What is?’ RMT’s Mick Lynch on work, dignity and union power
Finally, what has caused workers to "reach this point" is neo-liberalism, anti trade union laws and 40 years of class war against us. Yes, the unions in health and social care have failed to adequately respond, as have some of our class, but blaming the unions who have been most successful is resisting is barmy.
hitmouse
music obfuscation technology
I mean, what BristolEcho said was: "I worked for ten years in the private health and social care sector which was largely neglected and ignored by traditional Unions and the Labour party. I fully support the current strikes and will continue to do so, but the ineffectiveness of these organisations allowed us to get to this point." So they can clarify what they meant, but I think it's fair to talk about "the ineffectiveness of these organisations" meaning the union movement as a whole?
I dunno, I feel like in 2011 the government did a very good divide-and-rule job setting workers in the unorganised majority of the economy against the unionised sections. I hope that the same thing's not going to happen this time around, and I hope that EiE can help to push back against that, but if there's people who feel like the campaign isn't speaking to/for them then it's worth hearing them out?
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
I'm not sure anyone was attacking the RMT and CWU for failings of other unions, or I didn't read it that way at least.
I do wonder about people uncritically singing the praises of unions, and whether they've actually tried to get anything done in their union recently around a dispute or an issue that's is wider and more overtly political then personal casework. I work in the NHS, and my union (GMB) is repeatedly catastrophically shit and useless; they were shit over PPE in Covid, are useless now around the pay dispute, and are worse than useless over other issues like patient safety and under-staffing.
They are pretty much absent from the workplace, and seem to think that Tweeting something on an issue is a worthwhile political activity even with nothing else going on to support it. Other healthcare workers I know say the same about Unite and Unison pretty much. And that's when they're not being actively disruptive and parochial about issues that come up. People I know in other hospitals who have been trying to get stuff done constantly come up against the unions being obstructive, even before they get to the stage of having confrontations with management etc. (And all that is even leaving aside the wider criticisms some people have of the role of unions more generally in managing worker anger under capital, etc etc.)
I know it's often a case of who the reps are and the branches etc. as to how useful or not a union seems to be. And that if they are useless it obviously not some moral failing on their part, but the reality that for decades the unions have been broken with force and legal means to become a shadow of their former selves. But that does lead to a position now where they (with few exceptions that have been mentioned) are very weak, and are also often rightly criticized for also being bureaucractic, full of egos, slow moving, and fearful of anything that could even been considered as remotely confrontational and/or illegal.
I think any dispute involving (most) work will of course involve the unions, but I think the reality is for most workplaces part of the struggle will be escaping union control as quickly as possible and then being led by the workers rather than the union reps and leaders. (Sure they'll be some exceptions of course.)
I do wonder about people uncritically singing the praises of unions, and whether they've actually tried to get anything done in their union recently around a dispute or an issue that's is wider and more overtly political then personal casework. I work in the NHS, and my union (GMB) is repeatedly catastrophically shit and useless; they were shit over PPE in Covid, are useless now around the pay dispute, and are worse than useless over other issues like patient safety and under-staffing.
They are pretty much absent from the workplace, and seem to think that Tweeting something on an issue is a worthwhile political activity even with nothing else going on to support it. Other healthcare workers I know say the same about Unite and Unison pretty much. And that's when they're not being actively disruptive and parochial about issues that come up. People I know in other hospitals who have been trying to get stuff done constantly come up against the unions being obstructive, even before they get to the stage of having confrontations with management etc. (And all that is even leaving aside the wider criticisms some people have of the role of unions more generally in managing worker anger under capital, etc etc.)
I know it's often a case of who the reps are and the branches etc. as to how useful or not a union seems to be. And that if they are useless it obviously not some moral failing on their part, but the reality that for decades the unions have been broken with force and legal means to become a shadow of their former selves. But that does lead to a position now where they (with few exceptions that have been mentioned) are very weak, and are also often rightly criticized for also being bureaucractic, full of egos, slow moving, and fearful of anything that could even been considered as remotely confrontational and/or illegal.
I think any dispute involving (most) work will of course involve the unions, but I think the reality is for most workplaces part of the struggle will be escaping union control as quickly as possible and then being led by the workers rather than the union reps and leaders. (Sure they'll be some exceptions of course.)
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Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
Yeah, of course it’s worth hearing people out. This is a message board, it’s what we do on here. But it’s also fair to question statements that seem less than constructive or ground in assumptions rather than facts?
More than happy to debate the shortcomings of the British trade unions. Mine is largely fucking hopeless when it comes to the senior lay bureaucrats and full timer cadre. Politically useless and just not up the task of organising workers in the 21st century. But, as I’ve explained upthread EiE represents a step in the right direction and whatever the practical and political shortcomings of those involved as an idea it’s exciting: as an idea it’s posited outside of Labourism, it’s workplace and community focussed and it’s collaborative and aimed at drawing people in rather than repelling them via leftie fronts. I dunno, I just get the feeling that some want it to fail rather than getting stuck in before drawing conclusions.
hitmouse
music obfuscation technology
Yeah, like everything else I suppose it comes down to what the local groups look like when/if they get up and running. Until that happens all we can do is speculate really.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
Is there any news on these groups? Does feel like this is moving quite slowly, which makes me think that getting stuff done when the groups are set up might be tricky. "Great idea, we just need to check with the central committee comrade." And it'll be interesting to see where they choose to set them up. There's been mention of them being co-ordinated/led/whatever by union reps which I imagine is likely to restrict where they'll start maybe? How many union reps are going to have much time to put into a regular and active group outside work and their family/day-to-day life etc. for example? It'd be a bit shit if it's just big cities like they started the rallies in. Groups there are highly likely to be a messy disaster imo, be much better in smaller towns and villages etc. Or large workplace (or a mix of area and workplace) groups maybe?
Karl Masks
Birds Angel Delight
How about if the campaign set up a strike fund for people to donate to if they can?
hitmouse
music obfuscation technology
I think there's already specific strike funds going for particular strikes?
An AnarCom Network article on EIE and the rally in Manchester on the 30th August
anarcomuk.uk
Enough is enough for whom?
Postcard caricature of an anarchist produced between the two Russian revolutions of 1917 Against the background of an austerity onslaught and a rising tide of militancy through strikes, ballots and…
anarcomuk.uk
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Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
Can't really disagree with much of that, though the penultimate paragraph seems to be about a couple of steps from where we are now:An AnarCom Network article on EIE and the rally in Manchester of the 30th August
Enough is enough for whom?
Postcard caricature of an anarchist produced between the two Russian revolutions of 1917 Against the background of an austerity onslaught and a rising tide of militancy through strikes, ballots and…
At the moment I'd have thought the priority for anarchists and anyone wanting EIE to be something enduring is to see that the community organising actually happens. There are lots of existing organisations to work with, but also lots of places where leafleting and knocking on doors to build something up has to be the priority. I think it's all about hard graft and getting things in place at the moment - that would be a victory.
hitmouse
music obfuscation technology
Did the ACN leaflet the EIE rally with anything? (Also, can't help noting that starting your article with a caption reading "postcard caricature of an anarchist" is something of a hostage to fortune.)An AnarCom Network article on EIE and the rally in Manchester of the 30th August
Enough is enough for whom?
Postcard caricature of an anarchist produced between the two Russian revolutions of 1917 Against the background of an austerity onslaught and a rising tide of militancy through strikes, ballots and…
Thankyou for the feedback, it is appreciated.
Copies of our freesheet Rebel Rose were distributed but I'm also told that organisers were not happy about material being shared.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Do you know why this was? I’m not sure who leaflets these days but imo it didn’t appear to be sectarian , more propagandist.
hitmouse
music obfuscation technology
Yeah, this sounds kind of surprising/unlikely to me - there was a small section of approved official stalls, mainly from community groups, foodbank-type projects and ACORN, and then a lot of what I assumed to be unofficial stalls, with Don't Pay and the SWP as the most prominent, and then Soc Alt, Soc App, Communist League and so on, can't specifically remember if I saw the CPB/Morning Star and SP around but sure they must've been. I did think there wasn't any visible anarchist presence (unless they were there with Don't Pay), glad to have been wrong on that point. But either way, as far as unapproved material goes, I don't think one or two people giving out a freesheet would really register on the organisers' radar compared to Don't Pay and the various trot groups running full-size stalls.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
Leeds rally next. Still no sign of any community groups in public, but apparently some are meeting already not publicly.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
For me the constant bit about consciousness is a great turn-off. Rather than blathering away about trade union consciousness and regressive rhetoric (but dreyfus was right proud of that alliteration) you (acn) could have made a much better argument in a way more likely to attract than repel support. Something like 'eie's aims aren't going to shake capitalism, much less threaten it. Demands for a £15 minimum wage only sound revolutionary till you realise the work will remain shit, the bosses the same. This isn't revolutionary rhetoric. The unions were careful not to have an open mic so they could keep control of the message. No picket workers here spoke. Any community organising this lot do will be carefully circumscribed.An AnarCom Network article on EIE and the rally in Manchester on the 30th August
Enough is enough for whom?
Postcard caricature of an anarchist produced between the two Russian revolutions of 1917 Against the background of an austerity onslaught and a rising tide of militancy through strikes, ballots and…
Etc etc
Cheers for the feedback Pickmans
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
It's meant in a constructive way. Rather than do them down for their limited consciousness do them down for their limited demands not doing much. A £15 minimum wage might easily be £12 next year in real terms and £9 the following year. Their refusal to hear from actual workers in struggle doesn't bide well for internal democracy. Bring people to you
I have left a messge for the author asking why this was the case, but he is currently in Spain so I don't expect a reply any time soon.
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
This leeching in of social media inanity is irritating and I am glad someone is calling it out. I've just been reading Richard Seymour's essay 'The Harsh Discipline of Democracy'. In it, Seymour identifies social media based campaigns as "hyper accelerated. Their identifications, generally not consolidated in resilient class or civic institutions, are smeared out across social networks". These types of memes are correctly identified by Seymour as the 'sediment' of these campaigns.
There is a really important debate to be had, and which we are trying to have on this thread, about the tactics, opportunities and possible shortcomings of a significant initiative led by institutions which are both enduring and formed outside of the tech stack. Memes add nothing to the debate.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
Have you got a link to that, sounds worth a read.
Its just a wee thread on the interwebz at the end of the day. Do the flawless galaxy brained pointy heads and know alls of Urban 75 add anything of real significance and substance to the debate in the grand scheme of things? And do they go beyond debate?
Threshers_Flail
Well-Known Member
I think they do! I've learnt fuck loads from reading the politics threads on here. Granted it may be a small pool of people, but that doesn't stop it from having an impact and inspiring others to learn more about the world they live in.
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
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