Coronavirus - worldwide breaking news, discussion, stats, updates and more

[elbows]

The lab leak theory stuff continues to deliver stories that dont offer new clues into the origins, just some insight into the ways various people dismissed and closed down discussion of the matter in the past, and the reframing that is taking place now. As expected, its now more common to see gain of function studies coming up in this context.

Covid: White House defends Dr Fauci over lab leak emails

The disease expert says emails about a theory Covid leaked from a China lab are being misconstrued.

www.bbc.co.uk

"I would like to see the medical records of the three people who are reported to have got sick in 2019," Dr Fauci told the Financial Times on Thursday. "Did they really get sick, and if so, what did they get sick with?"

He called on China to also release the medical records of six miners who fell ill after entering a bat cave in 2012 in China's Yunnan province.

Three miners died, and Chinese researchers later visited the cave to take samples from the bats.

"It is entirely conceivable that the origins of Sars-Cov-2 was in that cave and either started spreading naturally or went through the lab," he said.

Dr Robert Redfield, who led the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention during the Trump administration, told Vanity Fair that he received death threats from fellow scientists when he backed the Wuhan lab leak theory last spring.

"I was threatened and ostracised because I proposed another hypothesis," Dr Redfield said. "I expected it from politicians. I didn't expect it from science."

I'd have expected it from scientists too. I wont forget in a hurry how aggressive some scientists became on twitter in regards all sorts of issues early in the pandemic, eg kids & schools, asymptomatic transmission. Scientists are just as capable of being too narrow as anyone else. Especially if they posses lots of confidence or arrogance in their understanding of specific matters. Lab leak theories are an even hotter potato than the other issues, so I'm not surprised some got carried away when attempting to shut down particular angles.

During congressional testimony on 12 May, Dr Fauci emphatically denied the US had ever funded controversial gain of function research at the Wuhan lab.

During a subsequent Senate hearing on 26 May, Senator John Kennedy, a Louisiana Republican, asked how Dr Fauci could be sure that Wuhan scientists did not use the money for gain-of-function research.

"You never know," Dr Fauci conceded, while adding that he believed the Chinese researchers were "trustworthy".

 

[tony.c]

I was just listening to BBC Radio 4 Today program and there was an interview with Professor Marc Van Ranst, a Belgian virologist. He has been targeted by a far right Covid denying Begian army sniper who has been on the run from his barracks since 18 May. I don't remember see anything about this on here, and couldn't find anything when I searched though it was reported in UK press on 19 May.

Belgium's Van Ranst: Covid scientist targeted by a far-right sniper

Many scientists have come under attack in the pandemic, but Marc Van Ranst's family are in a safe house.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Yossarian]

Good front page from Australia's NT News.

 

[teuchter]

Anti vax types will definitely change their minds when they read that.

 

[elbows]

Anti vax types will definitely change their minds when they read that.

They arent the target. The target is the wavering group in between.

 

[Dystopiary]

I was just listening to BBC Radio 4 Today program and there was an interview with Professor Marc Van Ranst, a Belgian virologist. He has been targeted by a far right Covid denying Begian army sniper who has been on the run from his barracks since 18 May. I don't remember see anything about this on here, and couldn't find anything when I searched though it was reported in UK press on 19 May.

Belgium's Van Ranst: Covid scientist targeted by a far-right sniper

Many scientists have come under attack in the pandemic, but Marc Van Ranst's family are in a safe house.

www.bbc.co.uk

"In the days that followed Jürgen Conings' disappearance, a support group was created for the ex-soldier on Facebook. Before being closed down, it had attracted nearly 50,000 members. It's this group that worries Prof Van Ranst more than his assailant."

Spoiler

[/ISPOILER]

 

[Dandred]

Bullshit or real?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/wuhan-lab-leak-theory-intelligence-biden/2021/05/28/786d57ac-bfe6-11eb-83e3-0ca705a96ba4_story.html?_gl=1*1k1kxye*_ga*WkpQc0EtRXpGNWhTaUcxQlBLaHgxWkw4ekxkbmNXQ2JSRTl2Z1JIMzBLdXZkWlJFY1doVWtNVkVZVFB3a3lOQQ

 

[elbows]

Bullshit or real?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/wuhan-lab-leak-theory-intelligence-biden/2021/05/28/786d57ac-bfe6-11eb-83e3-0ca705a96ba4_story.html?_gl=1*1k1kxye*_ga*WkpQc0EtRXpGNWhTaUcxQlBLaHgxWkw4ekxkbmNXQ2JSRTl2Z1JIMzBLdXZkWlJFY1doVWtNVkVZVFB3a3lOQQ

It isnt possible to know with the currently available info, the shift in recent weeks is only enough to make people open their minds to the possibility rather than be able to reach a conclusion.

I've discussed it plenty on this thread. Skim the thread from this post onwards: Coronavirus - worldwide breaking news, discussion, stats, updates and more

 

[redsquirrel]

They arent the target. The target is the wavering group in between.

Hmm, I suspect the target is more NT News readers/other media people - NT News is famously know for its headlines - such as "Why I stuck a cracker up my clacker". Perhaps not quite as off the wall as The Daily Star but not far off.

 

[platinumsage]

Bullshit or real?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/wuhan-lab-leak-theory-intelligence-biden/2021/05/28/786d57ac-bfe6-11eb-83e3-0ca705a96ba4_story.html?_gl=1*1k1kxye*_ga*WkpQc0EtRXpGNWhTaUcxQlBLaHgxWkw4ekxkbmNXQ2JSRTl2Z1JIMzBLdXZkWlJFY1doVWtNVkVZVFB3a3lOQQ

If you find caesium-137 on a beach outside a nuclear power station, where do you start your investigation into how it got there?

 

[Supine]

If you find caesium-137 on a beach outside a nuclear power station, where do you start your investigation into how it got there?

it’s not a great analogy as it’s well documented virus’s transfer from animals to humans. No labs required.

 

[platinumsage]

it’s not a great analogy as it’s well documented virus’s transfer from animals to humans. No labs required.

There are lots of sources of Cs-137, weapons tests, Chernobyl etc. The point is you start with the nearest and most obvious one, which in this would be the two labs in the whole world that do most work on novel coronaviruses located within a couple of miles of where the virus first appeared.

 

[David Clapson]

Couldn't you argue that the nearest bat colony is the most obvious source?

 

[elbows]

Couldn't you argue that the nearest bat colony is the most obvious source?

That argument ends up pointing back at the labs because the known coronavirus bat colonies are a long, long way away.

 

[platinumsage]

And the bats' principle contact with humans is lab workers from Wuhan who went there looking for coronaviruses to bring to Wuhan.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/coronavirus-bats-china-wuhan/2021/06/02/772ef984-beb2-11eb-922a-c40c9774bc48_story.html

But sure, maybe a bat flew into a seafood market and pooped on a pangolin or something, that does need investigating too.

 

[cupid_stunt]

It's not like China doesn't have a record when it comes to the original SARS escaping a lab, which is why I have an open mind on it.

From 2004 -

The latest outbreak of severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) in China, with eight confirmed or suspected cases so far and hundreds quarantined, involves two researchers who were working with the virus in a Beijing research lab, the World Health Organization (WHO) said on Monday (April 26).

"We suspect two people, a 26-year-old female postgraduate student and a 31-year-old male postdoc, were both infected, apparently in two separate incidents," Bob Dietz, WHO spokesman in Beijing, told us.

The woman was admitted to hospital on April 4, but the man apparently became infected independently 2 weeks later, being hospitalized on April 17. Both worked at the Chinese Institute of Virology in Beijing, part of China's Center for Disease Control.

SARS escaped Beijing lab twice

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[elbows]

Plus people might have been more open to such possibilities if they had been properly primed by repeated references to such history before now. eg as well as the various SARS 1 accidents, regular readers will recall that I am fond of drawing attention to the plausibility of H1N1 influenza having returned to the human scene, after decades away, in the late 1970s because of a lab accident. It was hard to single out a specific lab in that case, but there were other strong indicators such as the strain involved being a strain used in labs in decades past. A strain that should have mutated more by then if it had been lurking in the wild in the intervening years. And an appropriate context too - there had been a big H1N1 pandemic scare a year or so before (involving a new and different version of H1N1 that ended up never turning into a pandemic, never having got beyond a US army base outbreak), which lead to much intense lab research in regards vaccines etc for H1N1 strains. And then someone probably dropped a bollock and boom, we had a pandemic in the young as a result (older people werent so affected as their bodies had met that version of flu in the past, before it was usurped by H2N2 in the 1950s).

 

[ice-is-forming]

Melbourne's lockdown extended for another 7 days.

Yes it's causing some disruption and a 2 week hard lock down for metro Melbourne, but there are reduced restrictions in regional and rural Victoria. It's just come into winter in Australia.(June 1st) Melbourne have been locked down more than the rest of the country.

I work for a big company. We have managers who have been trying to get back out there nationally, stuck all over the place atm.

I see Labours request to build a Qld regional quarantine centre has been turned down by the PM again. Victoria can have one which is good, but they're going to use both urban hotels and the quarantine centre which sort of defeats the object

There are a lot of Australians who want to come back, and the MP says he wants to help them come home, and hotels can process returnees faster. He's going to the G8 and wants to look good.

All the outbreaks we've seen here have been from a quarantine breach. Not on purpose, through accident, carelessness, unknown, selfishness, ignorance. At the start the cruise ship breech! And now oh&s breaches leading to covid leaking into the middle of cities from quarantine hotels.

Outside of that we don't have covid. No community transmission..people getting it can be tracked and traced to a quarantine leak by however many degrees of separation. Only we have the Indian variant ( is it Delta?) In Victoria now, and it seems to be able to pass on by less contact time even outside.


So now it's getting a bit more urgent so the PM has thrown some $$, air time and a 3 star General at vaccine hesitancy, and and the vaccination roll out. Also because he's going to be asked about this at the G8 too I imagine.

Palaszczuk’s second Queensland quarantine plan denied

"The main resistance" to the Queensland proposal appears to be a belief that Annastacia Palaszczuk is trying to "fully replace hotel quarantine with the new system," says Sky News Political Editor Andrew Clennell. Queensland Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk launched a scathing attack on Prime...

www.skynews.com.au

 

[elbows]

Only we have the Indian variant ( is it Delta?) In Victoria now, and it seems to be able to pass on by less contact time even outside.

Yes it is Delta.

 

[ice-is-forming]

Good front page from Australia's NT News.

View attachment 272003

You can see why people in the Northern Territory aren't rushing out to get vaccinated..

 

[2hats]

All looks good to me. No chance that anything could possibly go wrong here.

 

[cupid_stunt]

All looks good to me. No chance that anything could possibly go wrong here.

Can't blame them, considering the law passed in Florida.

Royal Caribbean International on Friday announced a change in its policy, saying vaccinations against the coronavirus will be optional for cruise ship passengers.

“Guests are strongly recommended to set sail fully vaccinated, if they are eligible. Those who are unvaccinated or unable to verify vaccination will be required to undergo testing and follow other protocols, which will be announced at a later date,” the company said in its announcement.

The move comes after Florida passed a law that will fine companies $5,000 each time they ask customers if they are vaccinated against the coronavirus, the Miami Herald reported.

 

[Yossarian]

You can see why people in the Northern Territory aren't rushing out to get vaccinated..
View attachment 272121

Yep, easy to see why people don't feel a sense of urgency, though it's all the more reason to step up vaccination - a population where almost nobody has COVID and few have been vaccinated is very fertile ground for the new variants to get out of control with frightening speed, as has been happening in Taiwan.

 

[2hats]

Can't blame them, considering the law passed in Florida.

Or just ask people if they are unvaccinated and then only permit such people onboard. Hey presto - quarantine ships!

 

[elbows]

I havent thought of a suitable joke involving waves but I bet there is one.

 

[elbows]

littlebabyjesus and others may find this thread on twitter of interest. I know I did.

 

[elbows]

Also of tragic interest.

 

[Supine]

Interview with a German virologist who is an expert on corona virus. It’s translated but really interesting. Touches on lab leaks, herd immunity and lots of other subjects. Recommended.

Herr Drosten, woher kam dieses Virus?

Laborunfall oder Pelztierindustrie? Wo der deutsche Virologe Christian Drosten den Ursprung der Pandemie vermutet. Und seine Antwort auf die wichtigste Frage: Ist diese Pandemie jetzt wirklich vorbei?

bit.ly

 

[Supine]

Evidence still indicates a natural transmission not lab. Some good detail here.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/virus-origins-nature-lab/2021/06/03/dd50eb62-c4a9-11eb-93f5-ee9558eecf4b_story.html

 

[yield]

Dr. Fauci Backed Controversial Wuhan Lab with U.S. Dollars for Risky Coronavirus Research
Newsweek. 4/28/20

last year, the National Institute for Allergy and Infectious Diseases, the organization led by Dr. Fauci, funded scientists at the Wuhan Institute of Virology and other institutions for work on gain-of-function research on bat coronaviruses.

In 2019, with the backing of NIAID, the National Institutes of Health committed $3.7 million over six years for research that included some gain-of-function work. The program followed another $3.7 million, 5-year project for collecting and studying bat coronaviruses, which ended in 2019, bringing the total to $7.4 million.

Many scientists have criticized gain of function research, which involves manipulating viruses in the lab to explore their potential for infecting humans, because it creates a risk of starting a pandemic from accidental release.