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editor said:
Best summed up the words of a girlfriend of a good friend I had a monster argument with a few years back in New York. She asked what I was most proud of as a British person. I responded that it was the NHS and its free healthcare for all principles (at least when it was formed)

Her response: "Why should I pay for some bum to get better?"

It's all tied in with that American dream of doing better for yourself, pulling yourself up by your bootstraps and being a raging, fabulous success. And fuck anyone who gets in your way or any commie who tries to take any of your hard eared money and give it to someone who hasn't worked as hard as you. Or something,
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Individualism is so very strong here.
 
keybored said:
It's worse than that (1704 & 104,277) according to worldometers.
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I was looking at the CDC website when I typed that, but I'm sure it is worse than what is officially reported. And I just realized it was yesterday's CDC update, not today's. And the federal government is not exactly coming through with reputable info right now.
 
editor said:
Best summed up the words of a girlfriend of a good friend I had a monster argument with a few years back in New York. She asked what I was most proud of as a British person. I responded that it was the NHS and its free healthcare for all principles (at least when it was formed)

Her response: "Why should I pay for some bum to get better?"

It's all tied in with that American dream of doing better for yourself, pulling yourself up by your bootstraps and being a raging, fabulous success. And fuck anyone who gets in your way or any commie who tries to take any of your hard eared money and give it to someone who hasn't worked as hard as you. Or something,
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The reason why is actually illustrated very well by the current situation, without a decent public health system, everyone is hugely at risk from infectious diseases, as the poor can easily infect the rich.

It's not altruism to ensure basic general health standards, it's simple self-preservation.
 
editor said:
Best summed up the words of a girlfriend of a good friend I had a monster argument with a few years back in New York. She asked what I was most proud of as a British person. I responded that it was the NHS and its free healthcare for all principles (at least when it was formed)

Her response: "Why should I pay for some bum to get better?"

It's all tied in with that American dream of doing better for yourself, pulling yourself up by your bootstraps and being a raging, fabulous success. And fuck anyone who gets in your way or any commie who tries to take any of your hard eared money and give it to someone who hasn't worked as hard as you. Or something,
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I had it argued to me once a bit like this, that if they were paying for something they weren't getting, they'll just go to the doctors once a week anyway. Not enough facepalms.
 
Part-timah said:
That ship has sailed. Dig in this is going to be an epic one (most likely).
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It does seem that way. Watched a report on townships in South Africa and the people there have no chance of containing the virus. Communities with no water, chemical toilets shared by 40 plus people.
 
I have had that conversation with Americans, why should I pay for someone else? And I think it could be remembered that the NHS wasn't universally supported here in the UK when it was introduced. But this feeling is fundamentally selfish and ignores that if you yourself get ill, others will have paid for you.

Anyhow the NHS is a commonly funded national insurance policy without actual insurance companies taking a cut for their profits and it costs a lot less than US medical care costs. The Americans I have spoken to about it say things like we don't want no socialism!
 
editor said:
This is interesting and the source seems credible even if the voiceover is a bit annoying

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That's really good and clear. I've seen his physics things, which are really good. That covered lots of the basic points, I think. Well worth stressing the point re log scales that a straight line is really bad.
 
weltweit said:
I have just seen video from India with thousands of people milling around outside trying to leave New Delhi - it seems they are directly flaunting the country's stay at home instruction.
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TBF that instruction would, if followed without any support measures being brought in by the government, have led to people beginning to starve to death in the next week or two. It might still do.
 
agricola said:
TBF that instruction would, if followed without any support measures being brought in by the government, have led to people beginning to starve to death in the next week or two. It might still do.
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Yes and it seems the most aggressive self isolation demanded by a government thus far. Perhaps it is no surprise people are ignoring it.
 
editor said:
This is interesting and the source seems credible even if the voiceover is a bit annoying

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Yeah, he's a long-standing science youtuber, done collaborations with some other very well known science educators, generally well-respected.
 
Cid said:
Yeah, he's a long-standing science youtuber, done collaborations with some other very well known science educators, generally well-respected.
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And yet some fucking idiots will dismiss this and continue to 'ask questions' about the crisis based on a video full of unsourced random footage and unattributed bedroom 'research' compiled by TruthSeeker968 on WakeUpSheepleNow.com.
 
Would we trust statistics coming out of Putin's Russia?

Worldometer reports 1,264 cases and 4 deaths which seems very small.

BBC Reports: Coronavirus: Russia sees no epidemic but starts shutdown.
"This is not a week of extra leave or holiday," explained Benjamin Kondratiev on Instagram, clarifying the president's speech. He added his own call for "self-discipline" to get through what he called the "bad period" of coronavirus.

Many Muscovites have already headed out of town to their dachas, or summer houses.
..
Food shops will remain open, as well as other essential services, but from this weekend cafes and restaurants can offer takeaway only.

At one popular coffee chain, a barista who's now selling drinks through a window said coronavirus was the only topic of conversation these days, and that people were worried.
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from Russia sees no epidemic but starts shutdown

Russia to Close Borders as Coronavirus Crisis Escalates
Russia, the largest country by area, will temporarily shut all its borders starting March 30 after the number of coronavirus infections increased sharply over the last week. Health officials on Saturday reported 228 new cases of coronavirus overnight, bringing the total to 1,264, with four deaths attributed to the illness.

The order, posted on the government website, followed increasingly harsh restrictions of movements around the country. Moscow’s mayor shut all non-essential business on Saturday and recommended everyone remain at home to reduce contagion.
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from Russia to Close Borders as Coronavirus Crisis Escalates

Their number look lowish but Putin and Moskow's mayor are implementing measures, closing non essential businesses, stay home - take vacation but don't travel and Russia is closing borders.
 
You probably know my feeling on that sort of thing from previous questions about Chinas numbers, Irans numbers etc. There are countries more likely to mess with their numbers, there are countries we are more likely to suspect of such things, and then there are countries we are less likely to suspect of such things but whose numbers wont tell the whole story anyway. I dont expect any country to accurately count the number of people who die from this disease. There are ways to compensate for unavoidable limitations to counting the deaths, and when the world comes to look back on the figures in years to come, this will probably be reflected. There will be a mix of actual confirmed cases, stuff deduced broader mortality rates over the period, and estimates.

And yes, if you dont put much weight in the numbers coming from a particular country, then judging them by what measures they are actually taking, and when, can be a reasonable alternative.
 
There is too much stuff in the most recent ECDC Risk Assessment document for me to even begin trying to quote all the bits that are interesting. Anyone who doesnt mind getting their brains stuck into this sort of document should probably take a look, its a pretty good summary of all sorts of current thinking.


So I've just picked one small thing to quote from it for now. Because it suggests an approach by Ireland that people might want to look into further using other news etc sources. I dont have time to do this, but as people are interested in how we could actually do things like contact tracing properly in future, perhaps one of you might.

In Ireland, the main tasks of contact tracing have been shifted outside public health departments in order to scale it up as transmission increases. A system has been set up within a week using an online database and call centres staffed with volunteers, military cadets and students. Existing call centres are also used. In future, as the number of cases and contacts rise, contacts may be given information via text messages instead of phone calls
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(from page 18 of the document)
 
editor said:
And yet some fucking idiots will dismiss this and continue to 'ask questions' about the crisis based on a video full of unsourced random footage and unattributed bedroom 'research' compiled by TruthSeeker968 on WakeUpSheepleNow.com.
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The Jazzzy types have really blown what could have been a big moment for them - they've got a real conspiracy on their hands for a change, with officials in China covering up an outbreak in an early stages, officials in the US publicly downplaying the threat while privately issuing dire warnings and selling all their stocks, and much more, but instead of saying "told you so, motherfuckers!" the usual conspiraloons seem to be focusing on downplaying the crisis and suggesting it's been hyped up by the media working hand-in-hand with Rothschild toilet paper conglomerates or whatever.
 
Yossarian said:
The Jazzzy types have really blown what could have been a big moment for them - they've got a real conspiracy on their hands for a change, with officials in China covering up an outbreak in an early stages, officials in the US publicly downplaying the threat while privately issuing dire warnings and selling all their stocks, and much more, but instead of saying "told you so, motherfuckers!" the usual conspiraloons seem to be focusing on downplaying the crisis and suggesting it's been hyped up by the media working hand-in-hand with Rothschild toilet paper conglomerates or whatever.
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Almost like they're not interested in real conspiracies. If it's really happening, there's evidence, it can be proved, etc, where's the room for my special knowledge???
 
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