Coronavirus: music festivals, big gigs, sports events and big gatherings - going ahead and cancelled

[colacubes]

William of Walworth I was mid posting when Badgers posted but your wide eyed optimism is lovely but completely unfounded, and frankly insulting for those who work in the industry. I mean it’s sad some festivals aren’t going to happen but people are losing their actual livelihoods here and your speculation about vaccines and temperature checks is for the birds at this point.

 

[William of Walworth]

colacubes : I think that's a little bit too over-critical of some of the points I was trying to make, but please understand as well, that I do my best to understand how tough things are for everyone working -- and not -- in the events industry today.

My biggest sympathies are for everyone who might lose their job in live music and all live events

I had no intention to insult anyone, but accept my apologies please, if my post read like that

I do genuinely think that vaccination prospects for next year are of some relevance on this at least -- that was the more serious part of my post.

 

[Badgers]

Cheers WoW

You know that me and colacubes want festivals too

Admire your optimism and hope you are right. Just trying to keep people's expectations realistic. Vaccines are important but they are a massive 'logistical' project and festival take a lot of planning.

If I was trying to get a summer 2021 festival organised now there are already contractors bills and staff to pay before the cost of artists. There is not enough confidence to front the money. Pile Brexit on top of that shit and is a shit state of affairs my friend.

Festivals will return but I fear 2021 will mostly be a write off despite of any vaccines in the pipeline.

 

[Sunray]

Hey, I want to go back to a big crowded sweaty event as much as anyone who enjoys them.

Cheers WoW

You know that me and colacubes want festivals too

Admire your optimism and hope you are right. Just trying to keep people's expectations realistic. Vaccines are important but they are a massive 'logistical' project and festival take a lot of planning.

If I was trying to get a summer 2021 festival organised now there are already contractors bills and staff to pay before the cost of artists. There is not enough confidence to front the money. Pile Brexit on top of that shit and is a shit state of affairs my friend.

Festivals will return but I fear 2021 will mostly be a write off despite of any vaccines in the pipeline.

Totally agree.

If you plan for 2022 you might come out the other side, plan for 2021 the risks are massive. Michael Evis (bit doddery and weird these days) has said if it's Glastonbury isn't on 2021 it'll never be on again. I wrote to them suggesting setting up a crowd funder, I'd give them money. I helped a few places. They wrote back thanking me for the support.

 

[Badgers]

Hey, I want to go back to a big crowded sweaty event as much as anyone who enjoys them.


Totally agree.

If you plan for 2022 you might come out the other side, plan for 2021 the risks are massive. Michael Evis (bit doddery and weird these days) has said if it's Glastonbury isn't on 2021 it'll never be on again. I wrote to them suggesting setting up a crowd funder, I'd give them money. I helped a few places. They wrote back thanking me for the support.

Each festival/show is different. A few have just given up, some have been able to have a 'sabbatical' and others are blowing in the breeze.

Glasto can probably afford to skip another year more than most/all UK festivals. It does depend on the Eavis family appetite to keep going.

Equally there are a lot of traders (not just burger vans) who get most their income from the festival/event circuit and that is gone. Also a lot of us event professionals are signing (or have signed) out the industry.

Again my point is that theatre, sports stadia and corporate gigs will come first. Festivals will come second

 

[William of Walworth]

Badgers : Fair caution there, in post 1,023 (and the others).
I hope at least some of your predictions are wrong, but I completely get why you're saying these things -- your insight makes plenty of sense from a being correctly-cautious POV......

There's a little bit of scope for more hope in terms of small (aka tiny) events for 2021.
Gail Something-Else, of Something-Else fests, has recently changed her mind towards planning to restore as many of her mini-fests as she can next year

(No links -- Gail's personal FB page above, also her events FB page, are ridiculously busy )

 

[mx wcfc]

Again my point is that theatre, sports stadia and corporate gigs will come first. Festivals will come second

How can events like that be approved and not festivals? I have come around to the view that next year's festivals may be under threat still, but if you can allow an indoor theatre to open for a play, you can allow it to open for a gig. If you can allow a few thousand people into a football ground, you can allow a few thousand people into a festival. (yeah ok, on the whole football fans don't tend to camp at the ground all weekend!)

IF (and that's a big IF, I know) a significant proportion of the population (or at least the most at risk people) have been vaccinated by, say, the end of May, why shouldn't festivals be allowed? Maybe the bigger, earlier ones (Bearded and Glasto?) may be impossible, but ffs give me some hope for the smaller, DIY, festivals.

 

[William of Walworth]

Hey, I want to go back to a big crowded sweaty event as much as anyone who enjoys them.

If you plan for 2022 you might come out the other side, plan for 2021 the risks are massive. Michael Eavis (bit doddery and weird these days) has said if it's Glastonbury isn't on 2021 it'll never be on again. I wrote to them suggesting setting up a crowd funder, I'd give them money. I helped a few places. They wrote back thanking me for the support.

I remember that comment from Michael, but wasn't it a good while ago -- round about June?? -- that he said it?

A good way back in this thread, I linked to a couple of stories from the Somerset News, where he, and the man who's Glastonbury Festival's lawyer, were talking a lot more sense. Maybe from October, those articles?
( -- I can't now find my posts with the links, sorry)

The Glastonbury men were both being pretty cautious and caveat-laden, but they did offer some serious-sounding stuff about how it was not impossible that Glastonbury might return in 2021.

No doubt in quite a different form TBF!

 

[Badgers]

How can events like that be approved and not festivals

They are more corporate

 

[Supine]

Next year i'd be comfortable going to festivals with less than 1000 people. I've decided.

Small festivals have no crowds to push through. Lots of space. Larger festivals always have at least some places where social distancing isn't possible.

I really want to dance in a field again.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

How can events like that be approved and not festivals? I have come around to the view that next year's festivals may be under threat still, but if you can allow an indoor theatre to open for a play, you can allow it to open for a gig. If you can allow a few thousand people into a football ground, you can allow a few thousand people into a festival. (yeah ok, on the whole football fans don't tend to camp at the ground all weekend!)

Put simply, a venue like a theatre or sports ground can control the movement/arrival/contact of people in a way a festival just can’t.

 

[wemakeyousoundb]

As much as I'd like to go to a festival next year the social distancing control is not achievable as it would be in theatres or stadiums with all seated attendance.
The other thing is that by end of spring and into summer my most hopeful vaccination programme outcome is that frontline staff (NHS and care) and a portion or possibly most of the vulnerable cohort would have had it; the rest of the population will still be quite a long way away from receiving it.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Also remember the vaccine isn’t going to be a magic bullet. There will still have to be a lengthy transition period where it’s true effectiveness can be assessed. Companies may need to rebuild. Confidence has to be restored. Festivals (as we know them) should - if things work - be possible in 2022. Next year? Not so much.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Something to mull over with regards to things returning to normal, this week the boss of Qantas has stated that they are working on the premise of not flying to Europe or the US until late 2021 at the earliest. They currently have a bubble with New Zealand and are looking to open bubbles with places such as Korea, but it will be a very long time until we can go back to how things were before.

 

[2hats]

They have been stating that for almost a month now. Also, ferrying brand new 787-9s straight into storage in the desert (Victorville).

Most of their Dreamliner fleet is now parked up there with their A380s.

 

[Orang Utan]

I found this very interesting:

plague raves: what where they thinking

When Dixon played in Tunisia in August, he was sending out a clear message that the economic interests of high-profile DJs are worth taking…

businessteshno.medium.com

 

[spitfire]

From: https://assets.publishing.service.g...ent_data/file/937529/COVID-19_Winter_Plan.pdf

Link will open a PDF

The Government will also introduce spectator capacity limits for sports stadia, business events and live performances in tiers where these are permitted. These limits will vary depending on whether the event is held indoors or out. At tier 1 these will be 50% capacity or 4,000 outdoors and 1,000 indoors, whichever is lower and at tier 2 these will be 50% capacity or 2,000 outdoors and 1,000 indoors, whichever is lower.

This is a change from before isn't it? I know it won't help events be financially viable but this wasn't allowed previously as far as I remember?

 

[Teaboy]

From: https://assets.publishing.service.g...ent_data/file/937529/COVID-19_Winter_Plan.pdf

Link will open a PDF

The Government will also introduce spectator capacity limits for sports stadia, business events and live performances in tiers where these are permitted. These limits will vary depending on whether the event is held indoors or out. At tier 1 these will be 50% capacity or 4,000 outdoors and 1,000 indoors, whichever is lower and at tier 2 these will be 50% capacity or 2,000 outdoors and 1,000 indoors, whichever is lower.

This is a change from before isn't it? I know it won't help events be financially viable but this wasn't allowed previously as far as I remember?

Yup, its new. All tier dependent though.

 

[spitfire]

Yup, its new. All tier dependent though.

Thanks, I do remember some events being held in a social distance stylee but none were this big. Hmm...

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

From: https://assets.publishing.service.g...ent_data/file/937529/COVID-19_Winter_Plan.pdf

Link will open a PDF

The Government will also introduce spectator capacity limits for sports stadia, business events and live performances in tiers where these are permitted. These limits will vary depending on whether the event is held indoors or out. At tier 1 these will be 50% capacity or 4,000 outdoors and 1,000 indoors, whichever is lower and at tier 2 these will be 50% capacity or 2,000 outdoors and 1,000 indoors, whichever is lower.

Oh god.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Can’t wait to see how that’s actually going to work in real venues.

 

[clicker]

What happens if , as a venue in tier 1 , a 4000 event is planned and sold. But then the area moves into tier 2 before it takes place? However, either way, too soon and toilets.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

It’s a simplistic load of bollocks with no reference to actual practicalities of venue layouts, facilities and access.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

In short - anyone reading this who sees it as a green light for safe gigs is deluded.

 

[Badgers]

It’s a simplistic load of bollocks with no reference to actual practicalities of venue layouts, facilities and access.

Yup. Again sounds negative but this works for only a few venues/set ups. It will either be taken advantage of and people will get sick. Or places with money will get something and others nothing.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

An example - I book crew and generally look after a 120 capacity “indie” venue.

So, woohoo, assuming B’ham drops to tier 2 we can open at 50 capacity. For half the bands who play there that will be a record crowd.

But.

The gig room is accessed via a narrow staircase and then down a small corridor. The toilets are accessed off that corridor. It’s a bottle neck when quiet, even with just 50 punters it will be impossible to have any sort of distancing.

So, what to do? Open up and knowingly put people at risk? Or stay closed and risk financial ruin for the venue and the crew?

Answers on a postcard...

 

[killer b]

An example - I book crew and generally look after a 120 capacity “indie” venue.

So, woohoo, assuming B’ham drops to tier 2 we can open at 50 capacity. For half the bands who play there that will be a record crowd.

But.

The gig room is accessed via a narrow staircase and then down a small corridor. The toilets are accessed off that corridor. It’s a bottle neck when quiet, even with just 50 punters it will be impossible to have any sort of distancing.

So, what to do? Open up and knowingly put people at risk? Or stay closed and risk financial ruin?

Answers on a postcard...

They can't sell booze without a meal anyway, so there's probably no point opening

 

[klang]

They can't sell booze without a meal anyway, so there's probably no point opening

a perfect residency for Hot Chip.

 

[editor]

An example - I book crew and generally look after a 120 capacity “indie” venue.

So, woohoo, assuming B’ham drops to tier 2 we can open at 50 capacity. For half the bands who play there that will be a record crowd.

But.

The gig room is accessed via a narrow staircase and then down a small corridor. The toilets are accessed off that corridor. It’s a bottle neck when quiet, even with just 50 punters it will be impossible to have any sort of distancing.

So, what to do? Open up and knowingly put people at risk? Or stay closed and risk financial ruin?

Answers on a postcard...

You can't open it mate. You'd never forgive yourself if that lack of space created a mini-spreader event and someone got seriously ill.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

You can't open it mate. You'd never forgive yourself if that lack of space created a mini-spreader event and someone got seriously ill.

I know. So I have to ring round all the crew and tell them that light at the end of the tunnel was actually a train.

I hate this government with every fibre of my being.