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Coronavirus: music festivals, big gigs, sports events and big gatherings - going ahead and cancelled

William of Walworth said:
I get your question definitely --it was a while ago that I mentioned it though.

Having thought about it a bit more now ....
For festivals, I doubt it would ever be possible or sensible just to do temp checks on their own. They would have to be combined with earlier actual Covid tests, with people being expected to show proof of negative on arrival, and also having an instant test on entry. Presuming those could be available by summer.

All too compl;icated most likely. I'm going through much more pessimistic :thumbsdown: mode atm anyway , after the Nick Cave news :(

And I'm trying to postpone thoughts about how vaccination might affect stuff for the better .... maybe (if I'm really pessimistic! :eek: ), until winter 2021 ;) :(
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I'm meant to be seeing The Specials in September. I'd say that's unlikely. I mean, there's a chance it might be on, but if I haven't had the jab I doubt I'd consider it safe.

Some of the things that have been allowed to go ahead haven't been a good idea. All that 'Eat out to help out' nonsense. Plainly dangerous at that point. If opening gig venues / packing people into festivals starts happening when there's still high levels if infection I'll be giving it all a wide berth.
 
Monkeygrinder's Organ said:
No measure is 100% effective - it's always about degrees of risk. I think a quick but not very accurate measure like that is probably useful if there are low levels of infection generally, not so much if they're high and spreading.
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Yeah,that makes sense.

I had my temperature taken at a football match here in Cornwall where we've escaped high levels of infection. It was a reassuring measure, if nothing else.
 
I think temperature tests at festivals would throw up loads of other problems. Would you just lose your ticket money? What if you have a temp for another reason? Potential to sue the festival? What happens in situations where one person with a temp means the other members of their party also couldn't attend? Would they all have to lose their ticket money too?
 
mr steev said:
I think temperature tests at festivals would throw up loads of other problems. Would you just lose your ticket money? What if you have a temp for another reason? Potential to sue the festival? What happens in situations where one person with a temp means the other members of their party also couldn't attend? Would they all have to lose their ticket money too?
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It’s things like this that mean - short of a miraculous turnaround in infection rates - festivals aren’t going to happen in 2021. The legal/insurance issues put too much risk onto the organisers.
 
Exactly. Too many grey areas, H&S always aims for the lowest common denominator and assumes the worst so I just can’t see anything of any size happening next year.

Who would sign it off? That’s what it ultimately comes down to. Someone has to stake their entire professional life on a “hope for the best” situation. Ain’t gonna happen. Not at scale.

There might be some really nice little grass roots festies that spring up last minute but that’ll be your lot.
 
mr steev said:
I think temperature tests at festivals would throw up loads of other problems. Would you just lose your ticket money? What if you have a temp for another reason? Potential to sue the festival? What happens in situations where one person with a temp means the other members of their party also couldn't attend? Would they all have to lose their ticket money too?
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Also a lot of festival goers have a 'bit of a sweat on' ;) so there would likely be a lot of false positives.
 
I have one gig ticket for December 2021

Despite wanting things to happen in the summer I will not be booking any tickets.
 
Surely some substances people might be inclined to imbibe at festivals might also hike up temperatures. I don't know if that will be just surface temperature or body :hmm:

I've put all festival plans on hold until 2022 with plans instead next year to travel a bit if that's possible. Seems much easier for me to plan that than rely on up and down festival news. Plus it gives me an extra year to save more spends so I can go a bit further afield.
 
Voley said:
I'm meant to be seeing The Specials in September. I'd say that's unlikely. I mean, there's a chance it might be on, but if I haven't had the jab I doubt I'd consider it safe.

Some of the things that have been allowed to go ahead haven't been a good idea. All that 'Eat out to help out' nonsense. Plainly dangerous at that point. If opening gig venues / packing people into festivals starts happening when there's still high levels if infection I'll be giving it all a wide berth.
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I'd say that's a little bit over pessimistic personally. I mean, just for a bit of perspective that's roughly the same amount of time between now and then as it has been since this all kicked off. And in that time they've managed to design, test and start rolling out the vaccines. I don't see any reason to expect that most people won't be vaccinated by September - that's not some sort of pie in the sky 'everything's fine' viewpoint, I think it's quite realistic.

Stuff like festivals is different as people would need the certainty to be able to do some serious planning now but UK bands playing regular gigs? That's a lot simpler.
 
beesonthewhatnow said:
It’s things like this that mean - short of a miraculous turnaround in infection rates - festivals aren’t going to happen in 2021. The legal/insurance issues put too much risk onto the organisers.
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The 2020 season that never was is really starting to bite me financially, mainly in terms of royalties.
To go another year without will be well tough.
It's so difficult for so many...
 
I’ve got a gig in August, End Of The Road early September and Shiiine On in November. I’m mildly optimistic for EOTR and Shiiine On but I’m not pinning my hopes on it. We’ll probably rent a house somewhere again at some point if nothing else is happening.
 
Have five sets of tickets for gigs from 2020 that have been rolled over; Total Stone Roses in Guildford in April, Killers/Sam Fender in London in June, My Chemical Romance in Dublin in June, Lollapalooza in Paris in July & Elton John at the O2 in November. Will be fairly surprised if any other than Elton John happens.
 
Monkeygrinder's Organ said:
I'd say that's a little bit over pessimistic personally. I mean, just for a bit of perspective that's roughly the same amount of time between now and then as it has been since this all kicked off. And in that time they've managed to design, test and start rolling out the vaccines. I don't see any reason to expect that most people won't be vaccinated by September - that's not some sort of pie in the sky 'everything's fine' viewpoint, I think it's quite realistic.

Stuff like festivals is different as people would need the certainty to be able to do some serious planning now but UK bands playing regular gigs? That's a lot simpler.
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Practically speaking it does seem very realistic but will events be able to get insurance at a price they can afford by then? Seems to me there's an enormous black hole of risk associated with having socially close people in a field at least, with very limited cleaning facilities. Some mardy arse is bound to get off their tits, run round hugging everyone, throw up on a couple of people then try suing the festival for ill health after the fact despite it not being the 'rona and self inflicted.
 
Mogden said:
Practically speaking it does seem very realistic but will events be able to get insurance at a price they can afford by then? Seems to me there's an enormous black hole of risk associated with having socially close people in a field at least, with very limited cleaning facilities. Some mardy arse is bound to get off their tits, run round hugging everyone, throw up on a couple of people then try suing the festival for ill health after the fact despite it not being the 'rona and self inflicted.
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Well I was talking about regular gigs - Voley's Specials gig in September - rather than festivals which are obviously a lot more complex to organise.

That said though is there any precedence for that sort of legal action? Twats are always going 'I'm going to sue' but despite what the Sun thinks I don't think courts are generally busy giving out damages left right and centre. If they were people would be busy suing local pubs now but they're not as far as I can tell.
 
It's not my area of expertise. Badgers and bees will have more knowledge on the subject I would think. I mean we haven't got the vastly litigatious society of the States but at this stage I'd guess anything is possible. I'm just suggesting that it might not be the actual organising people at gigs and festivals but the associated paperwork that kills it next year.
 
I can't see anyone being able to sue the festival. In the same way as your can't sue Tesco if you contracted the virus there.

If a festival/venue/shop has social distancing/mask signs up and sanitiser available then they have covered their backs.

It is almost guaranteed that some people will have the virus and how they/you behave will be what causes the infections. If people are dancing, hot, hugging and singing it is a petri dish of infection. Even if 90% of people are vaccinated then that is hundreds, thousands and in some festivals 10k plus spreading it about.

We have all been to festivals/gigs. There is no change people will be distancing, wearing masks and sanitising is there.
 
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Badgers said:
I can't see anyone being able to sue the festival. In the same way as your can't sue Tesco if you contracted the virus there.

If a festival/venue/shop has social distancing/mask signs up and sanitiser available then they have covered their backs.

It is almost guaranteed that some people will have the virus and how they/you behave will be what causes the infections. If people are dancing, hot, hugging and signing it is a petri dish of infection. Even if 90% of people are vaccinated then that is hundreds, thousands and in some festivals 10k plus spreading it about.

We have all been to festivals/gigs. There is no change people will be distancing, wearing masks and sanitising is there.
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That's a like in agreement. When best mate Mogden dropped off my birthday flowers and card last weekend I really struggled with the instinct to hug her but she stayed outside and I didn't and I do not enjoy hugging as a rule so no, festivals at least will be a hotbed of germs.
 
I hope you're right Monkeygrinder's Organ . I've never seen The Specials! One of my fav bands ever.

If it doesn't feel right I won't be going though. I'd want a lot of vaccination done and the infection rates down to hardly anything before I'm jumping up and down, inside, and next to a couple of thousand other people. It still seems a way off to me, I must admit, but I hope your more optimistic take is right.

That first gig you go to after this is going to be a fucking belter isn't it? It'll be quite emotional I think.
 
Badgers said:
I can't see anyone being able to sue the festival. In the same way as your can't sue Tesco if you contracted the virus there.

If a festival/venue/shop has social distancing/mask signs up and sanitiser available then they have covered their backs.

We have all been to festivals/gigs

It is almost guaranteed that some people will have the virus and how they/you behave will be what causes the infections. If people are dancing, hot, hugging and singing it is a petri dish of infection. Even if 90% of people are vaccinated then that is hundreds, thousands and in some festivals 10k plus spreading it about.

. There is no change people will be distancing, wearing masks and sanitising is there.
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Maybe getting a bit more general here but if vaccination levels are at 90% then I think either:

- It turns out that the vaccines do provide a level of protection against transmission and you get to the herd immunity threshold whereby the remaining 10% are protected (fingers crossed).
- It turns out it doesn't and the virus carries on circulating. The remaining 10% will be particularly vulnerable (although a lot of them will be vaccine denier types so fuck them tbh). But people are going to start going back to normality still. Covid might just become another illness that some people get but people will take their chances.

What I can't see though is a situation where most people have been vaccinated but carry on with all the current distancing etc to protect that small minority. People won't stand for it. So I think people will go back to gigs etc one way or another given time.
 
I dont see the point in talking about 90% vaccination levels at this stage given there currently aren't even any plans to vaccinate people under 50 with no health complications. If/when that is even on the radar then I'll think further about it, but herd immunity doesn't show up in my current thinking at all. Vaccine manufacture isn't trivial either, so I have no real sense of how quickly they will get supplies to vaccinate all the priority groups. After a few months it should become clearer quite how long that will take, and I dont feel the need to rush ahead with my thoughts, there are plenty of variables that aren't clear to me yet.
 
I think that is a fair shout.

If 10% at Glasto (for example) are not vaccinated then with ticket holders and crew etc that is is likely to be 15-20k people.

That is less of an issue than the planning and investment needed to set up the festival in terms of bands and infrastructure. Glasto (again as an example) is about 6 months away now. The risk of committing the outlay with the uncertainty is not a small risk. If things do not go to plan then the festivals be unlikely to recover.

I am all for smaller festivals and those might be more viable. However they are likely to be more of a shoestring budget than the big events.

Vaccines are starting to roll out which is great. However the recent 'faux lockdown' and upcoming Christmas is likely to mean a big spike in a month ish and likely January and at least part of February are going to see more restrictions :(

As ever this post sounds negative but am trying to be realistic to manage expectations.
 
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