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Coronavirus: music festivals, big gigs, sports events and big gatherings - going ahead and cancelled

Good discussion/comments/insights. I take on board all the realism, and I honestly am thinking about the points raised.

On the faint chance that Glastonbury somehow!! does happen in 2021, it would surely have to reduce itself in size -- somehow! -- but significantly.

Big problems there with so many people holding 2020 tickets and retaining them -- the return/refund rate was very low apparantly.
But size of event is a major issue .....

Another thing I suppose they might? think about is postponing the fest until September or so (and still aiming to reduce the size).

Pure speculation the above, obviously, but whatever happens, it would need to be a much-changed event, and quite rightly.
That's true even ;) if there's no Glastonbury untl June 2022.

But despite my current big pessimism, I'd gamble that leaving it until 2022 might be slightly less likely than some form of Glastonbury at some point happening in 2021. IMO, like :(

The only reason I'm contradicting almost all of you on that, is that I'm more optimistic -- for now -- about vaccination than the Urban average, and honestly not just wishfulthinkingly** either.

**Word?? :p
 
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2hats said:
Quite. Less than half the population are currently planned to be vaccinated. Then factor in efficacy, longevity. It's about disease immunity, rather than sterilising immunity.
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The key word above just might? be 'currently' ...

If/when Oxford/AZ becomes approved, 100 million doses of it have been ordered.
I saw that number confirmed today in today's Graun. And there are plans, apparantly, for AstraZeneca to manufacture it mainly in the UK, so 100m might? not be the final figure either.

(Sorry -- this is off-topic here really -- return this chat to the vaccine thread maybe?)
 
William of Walworth said:
Another thing I suppose they might? think about is postponing the fest until September or so (and still aiming to reuce the size).
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It'll be a problem if lots of big festivals postpone to September. I can see Bearded doing that. If they all do, the crews/vendors etc can't cover them all, and punters can't afford the cost or time off in a single month, and it all becomes unviable. If Glastonbury and Bearded moved to September, other festivals might throw in the towel.

Something Else cancelled very early this year, for precisely that reason.

And, if I remember correctly, Something Else 2019 was a bit grim! It's not the ideal month for festivals.
 
2hats said:
Quite. Less than half the population are currently planned to be vaccinated. Then factor in efficacy, longevity. It's about disease immunity, rather than sterilising immunity.
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Hmmm. Maybe festivals should have an "over 50s only" rule. Glastonwick might be OK, as would Something Else. I'll take that.
 
We Out Here is going ahead next year and I'll be turning up if it actually happens. It's all about outdoor socialising in 2021 I reckon. I'm unlikely to spend much time in pubs or sweaty rave basements next year.
 
beesonthewhatnow said:
It's really not that simple for them to do that.
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I know. I should have emphasised that a decision like that (postponing until September or whenever), and any decision really, is going to be pretty damned tough for them.
In other words I agree with you.

More generally though, Glastonbury's planning and infrastructure and skill-range/experience as organisers are all formidable, which could reduce some hurdles. Note emphasis -- and same would apply to having to leave it until 2022.
 
Supine said:
We Out Here is going ahead next year and I'll be turning up if it actually happens. It's all about outdoor socialising in 2021 I reckon. I'm unlikely to spend much time in pubs or sweaty rave basements next year.
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Damn, clashes with Green Man. Not that I've heard of many of the acts at either, tbh.
 
William of Walworth said:
More generally though, Glastonbury's planning and infrastructure and skill-range/experience as organisers are all formidable, which could reduce some hurdles. Note emphasis -- and same would apply to having to leave it until 2022.
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Their planning is almost irrelevant, it's the entire rest of the industry that they would need where the problems come.
 
beesonthewhatnow said:
Their planning is almost irrelevant, it's the entire rest of the industry that they would need where the problems come.
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I take that point about the rest of the industry, and it's a big one. Perhaps I should have left out or changed the word 'planning' :oops:

But surely?, +if+ some version of Glastonbury happens sooner than people expect (that is before 2022!), then their event-organising infrastructure would leave Glastonbury better able to work out workarounds and changes than most?
(Obviously in collaboration with lots of others)

I clearly need a lot more thinking time though :(
So I'd better leave this for now.
 
The bands are one thing. If they've got a few quid behind them they will have been able to sit this out. The people who own the sites or the venues will/might have got grants and been able to put employees on furlough, but the self employed technical people and the riggers and the backstage workers and the light people and the sound engineers and the merchandise sellers and manufacturers and the food vans and the people who rent out portaloos and lights and stages and barriers and the security companies and all sorts of other things that are required to put on big events have all been ignored during this, so lots of those businesses will have gone to the wall.
Or they'll have retrained in cyber. :facepalm:

Lots of the people affected will come back, but lots of them wont. Either because they are dead or because they have had tragedy in their lives or because they have found a new way of life.

Live events are going to take a very very long time to be recover the damage wrought on them by 2020.
 
Looking at the average age of a Glastonbury audience, plus crew and most performers, they are way down the list for vaccines. It'd be irresponsible/impossible to try and plan for it to occur pre vaccine.
 
clicker I accepted above the possibility of 2022 rather than 2021, and I get ever more pessimistic :(

But we simply don't yet know how the vaccine timetable is going to pan out ...
I refer you to the 100 million Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine doses I mentioned earlier (subject to MHRA approval, obvs, but that's expected soonish, and it would be a big shock to everyone in science/medicine if no approval was granted)

And if it's 'irresponsible' for Glastonbury to be planned, have a word with the Eavises.
They've been provisionally (note emphasis!) planning the next fest since the latter half of 2019.
And they and their team are experienced/not-stupid enough to be allowing for all possibilities and making big changes, I have no doubt.

pesh said:
The hypothetical Glastonbury bollocks starts earlier every year
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Who's denied it's hypothetical at the moment?

But for people who've been missing Glastonbury badly, who go there, who work there, why the hell shouldn't they be thinking about it?
Yes I know fully well the more pessimistic outlooks .... as does everyone on this thread.

So a bit more politeness than that, and a bit less dismissiveness, would cost nothing.
 
William of Walworth said:
clicker I accepted above the possibility of 2022 rather than 2021, and I get ever more pessimistic :(

But we simply don't yet know how the vaccine timetable is going to pan out ...
I refer you to the 100 million Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine doses I mentioned earlier (subject to MHRA approval, obvs, but that's expected soonish, and it would be a big shock to everyone in science/medicine if no approval was granted)

And if it's 'irresponsible' for Glastonbury to be planned, have a word with the Eavises.
They've been provisionally (note emphasis!) planning the next fest since the latter half of 2019.
And they and their team are experienced/not-stupid enough to be allowing for all possibilities and making big changes, I have no doubt.



Who's denied it's hypothetical at the moment?

But for people who've been missing Glastonbury badly, who go there, who work there, why the hell shouldn't they be thinking about it?
Yes I know fully well the more pessimistic outlooks .... as does everyone on this thread.

So a bit more politeness than that, and a bit less dismissiveness, would cost nothing.
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I think - and I’m not having a go here, just observing - where you go wrong with all this is seeing Glastonbury as a single event, unconnected from the entire global music industry. The logistics involved for it are fundamentally entwined with international touring schedules and record industry requirements, both from the individual artists and also the technical support companies points of view. It can’t simply go it alone and make decisions about if, how and when it happens, it’s just one part of a highly complicated, year round logistical supply chain.

Right now every venue, arena, tour manager and record industry exec is making plans for what happens when it can all start again. There is going to be a colossal demand when it does, and it’s going to be mind bogglingly complicated to get it all sorted. The priority will be tours, not festivals, because that’s where the money lies.

I know you love it. I know you want it back. Every single person in the industry wants the same, probably even more than you. But - miracles aside - it’s looking less and less likely with every day that passes. I would love to be proved wrong come June.
 
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littleseb said:
June is just over 6 months away, i'd say it's impossible to pull it off
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For now I'd disagree with 'impossible', but in almost all other respects I do agree with beesonthewhatnow 's points just above :( :(

You can't really contradict those -- like others on here, he knows far more about the actual workings of tour planning, the live music industry, etc. which I must try and respect more :oops:

I know a whole lot about Glastonbury, but it's largely site layout and overall infrastructure-based .......
 
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clicker said:
Yes William of Walworth , as you bolded, 'we don't know yet'.....and because nobody knows the timetable it's impossible to plan to occur before vaccine, it isn't going to be planned and cancelled at the last minute in 2021. Honest Guv.
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I agree with you that if they cancel G2021, they'll cancel a lot earlier -- they'd have to. And as I said, I'm getting increasingly pessimistic now :(

But I don't (speaking hypothetically!) agree with you that contingency planning for the (very) unexpected is irresponsible.
 
I recieved an email about Shambala earlier. It's the only one I have a glimmer of hope for tbh as it's not until late August. The email was mainly giving another chance at cancelling and getting a refund before tickets for 2021 go on sale. There are also updates to their terms and conditions

SHAMBALA 2021 AND COVID-19

Following the cancellation of 2020’s event due to the Covid-19 pandemic, all customers will be bound by the updated terms and conditions for the 2021 Festival. It is expected that in order to adhere to conditions of license and maintain the paramount focus of Kambe Events on customer and crew safety, additional measures in relation to Covid-19 will be in place. The preparation, planning and mitigation of risk will be dynamic. Updates are to be expected, but we draw your attention to the specific and current clauses below.

Whilst we will make every effort to communicate any significant and specific changes to all, we again note it is the responsibility of ticket holders to check for updates to these terms and conditions. This is particularly encouraged ahead of the normal and maintained deadline for refunds – 4 weeks ahead of the event (see the “CANCELLATION, MISUSE AND REFUNDS” section below for more information on refunds).

  1. In light of the current COVID-19 pandemic, you understand that there are particular risks associated with attending any outdoor gathering (including the Festival). We will take reasonable steps to comply with any relevant guidelines intended to reduce the spread of COVID-19 and we will make you aware of these measures. However, we cannot be responsible for the behaviour or health of other Festival attendees and cannot effectively ensure that no attendees at the Festival will have COVID-19. Accordingly, we will not be responsible if you catch COVID-19 at the Festival or for any illness or death of any Festival attendees caused by COVID-19.
  2. You understand and accept that you will be attending the Festival and using any facilities on-site at your own risk.
  3. To help us to reduce the spread of COVID-19, we ask that you:
a. do not attend the Festival if*:

    • you have tested positive for COVID-19 within 14 days of the commencement of the Festival;
    • you display any symptoms of COVID-19;
    • you live with somebody who displays symptoms of COVID-19 or who has tested positive for COVID-19 within 14 days of the commencement of the Festival; or
    • you are otherwise required to self-isolate.
*note that where there is a conflict between any of the provisions in this paragraph 3.a and any updated government guidelines, the updated government guidelines will apply where they are stricter than the provisions set out in this paragraph 3.a;

b. follow all guidelines and/or entry requirements notified by us to you and which will apply to your attendance at the Festival. This may include remaining in restricted groups or testing on entry or prior to attending the Festival. We may be required to amend our guidelines before or during the Festival and ask that you comply with any updated guidelines notified to you;

c. follow all government guidelines (which may be updated from time to time);

d. provide your contact details and those of members of your booking party via our e-ticketing platform, to a member of Festival staff as directed upon entering the Festival, or if required download and use the government’s official COVID-19 tracing app, for the purpose of notifying you where you may have come into contact with somebody who has tested positive for COVID-19;

e. you will notify us if you test positive for COVID-19 after attending the Festival for the purposes of notifying other attendees who may have come into contact with you whilst at the Festival.

  1. You understand that you are fully responsible for all costs incurred in following all guidelines and/or entry requirements, including all government guidelines.
  2. You understand that we have the right, at our complete discretion, to:
    a. refuse entry to any attendee who we reasonably believe may display COVID 19 symptoms or who may not have followed government guidelines or our guidelines or entry requirements;
    b. require that any attendee leaves the Festival where we reasonably believe that they may not be complying with these terms or any of our or government guidelines in force in relation to COVID-19.
  3. If we are required to exercise a right in paragraph 5, you acknowledge and agree that we will not be obliged to refund you for your ticket and any other costs you have, or might incur.
  4. If you are unable to attend the Festival because of any of the reasons in paragraph a (or because of any updated government guidelines), provided that you supply to our ticketing agent, The Ticket Sellers, evidence in advance of the events as they reasonably require to support this, we will cancel your ticket and provide you with a refund of the same. We will not be liable for any additional costs incurred by you.
  5. If government guidelines mean that we need to operate a reduced capacity at the Festival in order for us to comply with those guidelines, you understand that we have the right, with regret, to cancel your attendance to the Festival. In the unfortunate event that we need to exercise this right, you acknowledge that the tickets that we cancel will be at our complete discretion and based on a ‘last sold first cancelled’ basis. In these circumstances, we will notify you as early as possible and refund to you the full amount of any tickets cancelled. We will not be liable for any additional costs incurred by you.
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