Corbyn & Cabinet in the Media

[killer b]

I wonder what the point of a political party is, if not to represent the will of it's membership?

What MarkyMark seems to be arguing for is for the membership to fall in line with the will of the political class who until recently were in control of the party, despite the recent, total rejection of that political class by all parts of the party other than the PLP. Have I got that right?

 

[teqniq]

I reckon so.

 

[ViolentPanda]

They should not be elected next time then if so unpopular in the constituencies.

Their constituents have no power to alter the choice of unpopular MPs under current party rules (when Labour did, MPs were a lot more representative of the concerns of their constituents). If they want a Labour MP, they have to vote for the Party's place-man.
I shouldn't be having to explain this stuff to you, if you're a Labour supporter. You should know this already.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Yes, but the above won't be elected by the electorate if you are correct with your ear to the ground.
I suspect you talk bollocks and they'll be elected with significant majorities.

You miss the point entirely, which is that given the choice of electing a Labour MP who happens to be a wankshaft, or not voting - letting the opposition get in - or voting for the opposition, people will consistently vote for the wankshaft because they're standing under the Labour banner, hence Tristram Hunt, for example.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Which is why they are chucking their dolly out of the pram these days due to the suggestion that this choice be handed back to the CLP MarkyMarrk

Yep. They're shit-scared of the re-empowerment of local parties, and the effect it would have on their current sinecures.

 

[MarkyMarrk]

This. Absolutely this.

Why don't you think MPs should be accountable to their constituents? that's what you're promoting.

You also write about how horrific local MPs are bit then say they'll get voted for anyway.

 

[DotCommunist]

thats generally how a safe seat works

 

[MarkyMarrk]

If the election goes awry, they'd have a point. And the right-wing Labour Party and our venal and supine press will have only themselves to blame - nobody could seriously suggest that the monstering of Corbyn by both of those has been in any way creditable or decent, far less honest.

So there are no circumstances where Corbynistas - ignoring the electorate as they are - can be blamed.

Convenient and exactly why the left are so marginal.

 

[MarkyMarrk]

thats generally how a safe seat works

Another one with contempt for the electorate.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I wonder what the point of a political party is, if not to represent the will of it's membership?

What MarkyMark seems to be arguing for is for the membership to fall in line with the will of the political class who until recently were in control of the party, despite the recent, total rejection of that political class by all parts of the party other than the PLP. Have I got that right?

Would you like to respond to this, MM?

 

[DotCommunist]

Another one with contempt for the electorate.

there can be upsets and how safe were seats in scotland once upon a time? But for a variety of factors there is such a thing as a safe seat. For any party. Theres some rock solid blue territories that haven't returned anything other than tories since before the chartists*


*probably

 

[littlebabyjesus]

So there are no circumstances where Corbynistas - ignoring the electorate as they are - can be blamed.

Convenient and exactly why the left are so marginal.

Which electorate are you talking of here?

Corbyn is extremely good at winning elections, btw. Has turned a majority of 5,000 when first elected to Islington North into a majority of over 20,000 at the last election. And then of course, there was the leadership election, in which he swept the board against his opponents.

So, big mandate from his constituency, and big mandate from his party. Clear > 50% from all the votes in each case - ie more than for all his opponents put together selected him as their first choice, a proper mandate. Few politicians have such a clear mandate from their respective electorates.

 

[killer b]

Would you like to respond to this, MM?

he doesn't, in any meaningful way. I've tried before.

 

[Louis MacNeice]

Why don't you think MPs should be accountable to their constituents? that's what you're promoting.

You also write about how horrific local MPs are bit then say they'll get voted for anyway.

How do you think MPs should be selected?

Louis MacNeice

 

[littlebabyjesus]

he doesn't, in any meaningful way. I've tried before.

He's one of those idiots who come on here and boast that they went to Oxbridge, as well.

Well done. *pats head* You're still an idiot.

 

[killer b]

we live in Brechtian times.

After the uprising of the 17th June
The Secretary of the Writers Union
Had leaflets distributed in the Stalinallee
Stating that the people
Had forfeited the confidence of the government
And could win it back only
By redoubled efforts. Would it not be easier
In that case for the government
To dissolve the people
And elect another?

 

[SpackleFrog]

Could I interest you in our paper or even a subscription to our theoretical journal?

Comradely greetings - Louis MacNeice

No, yours is shit you sectarian bastard

 

[ViolentPanda]

Why don't you think MPs should be accountable to their constituents? that's what you're promoting.

Are you incapable of reading?
I'm in favour of MPs being absolutely accountable to their constituents.

You also write about how horrific local MPs are bit then say they'll get voted for anyway.

I'm saying that as party policy stands there are no deselection mechanisms, so voters have a simple choice - vote for a Labour wanker or a Tory. If your constituency is one the vast majority that is not a swing constituency, then currently you're fucked if your constituency tribally votes Labour, and you end up with a knob-end as an MP.

There, have I explained that simply enough for you?

 

[ViolentPanda]

So there are no circumstances where Corbynistas - ignoring the electorate as they are - can be blamed.

Convenient and exactly why the left are so marginal.

Please elucidate HOW Corbyn's supporters are "ignoring the electorate".

 

[MarkyMarrk]

You equate party members with constituents. It's exactly the problem all Corbynistas have. Ignore the population.

Do you know anyone who voted Tory last time who will now vote Labour because of Corbyn? There must be loads, the way you're going on. Because not one Corbynista has ever told me they have found one. They seem to be suggesting that a mass of non-voters will start voting. Even though they are non-voters ao it's a stupid strategy, and non-voters are apparently no more left wing than voters.

Oh, and some nonsense about how they will win all the SNP votes back (we still would have lost with every single SNP vote)

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Please elucidate HOW Corbyn's supporters are "ignoring the electorate".

By not joining the Tory party?

It's logic, innit: Tories won the last election, therefore tories are the will of the electorate, therefore not becoming a tory is to be fundamentally anti-democratic.

 

[ViolentPanda]

He's one of those idiots who come on here and boast that they went to Oxbridge, as well.

Well done. *pats head* You're still an idiot.

As I said elsewhere, I'm not impressed that Cambridge's colleges appear to be producing graduates ever less able to engage in analytical and critical thought. At least on the evidence MarkyMarrk provides.

 

[MarkyMarrk]

Would you like to respond to this, MM?

I'm not a fan of mob aggression.

This thread is evidence of why the far left is fucked. And why the Labour Party is.

 

[MarkyMarrk]

Yes, personal insults. More illustrations of the far lefts favoured tactics.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I'm not a fan of mob aggression.

This thread is evidence of why the far left is fucked. And why the Labour Party is.

That's not mob aggression.

This might be, though, if others join in.

You don't want to respond to questions? Well why don't you fuck off, then?

 

[killer b]

it's pointless.

 

[SpackleFrog]

I'm not a fan of mob aggression.

This thread is evidence of why the far left is fucked. And why the Labour Party is.

Mob aggression?

You're more hopelessly derivative than the real Marky Mark.

 

[ViolentPanda]

You equate party members with constituents. It's exactly the problem all Corbynistas have. Ignore the population.

I haven't done anything of the sort, and if you think I'm a "Corbynista", you're even more blind and foolish than I thought.

Do you know anyone who voted Tory last time who will now vote Labour because of Corbyn? There must be loads, the way you're going on. Because not one Corbynista has ever told me they have found one. They seem to be suggesting that a mass of non-voters will start voting. Even though they are non-voters ao it's a stupid strategy, and non-voters are apparently no more left wing than voters.

It's great you're still showing absolutely no grasp of electoral dynamics.

Oh, and some nonsense about how they will win all the SNP votes back (we still would have lost with every single SNP vote)

"We"? Have you drunk the Kool-Aid? Are you a councillor-in-waiting?

 

[MarkyMarrk]

Which electorate are you talking of here?

Corbyn is extremely good at winning elections, btw. Has turned a majority of 5,000 when first elected to Islington North into a majority of over 20,000 at the last election. And then of course, there was the leadership election, in which he swept the board against his opponents.

So, big mandate from his constituency, and big mandate from his party. Clear > 50% from all the votes in each case - ie more than for all his opponents put together selected him as their first choice, a proper mandate. Few politicians have such a clear mandate from their respective electorates.

Islington. Yes. Noticeable he packed his shadow cabinet (in an amateur manner) with north londonites as well.

Corbynista swing last election was terrible compared to most labour MPs.

 

[ViolentPanda]

By not joining the Tory party?

It's logic, innit: Tories won the last election, therefore tories are the will of the electorate, therefore not becoming a tory is to be fundamentally anti-democratic.

Only if you ignore the fact that only 24% of the electorate actually elected the blue bastards.