Corbyn & Cabinet in the Media

[smokedout]

I give up. Glassy eyed hero worship. Nothing good will come of it.

 

[Artaxerxes]

I couldn't do that, I detest both the means and the ends of new labour, but I don't know what Corbyn will do, whether he really will abandon all those structures and links.

Thing is those structures and links didn't do shit for Milliband and not much for Brown either. We've come off the back of an election where Ed spent 4 years being crucified.

 

[YouSir]

it's never to early to argue over

(without being flippant, all this give him a chance, let him settle in stuff is the wrong strategy - he needs to be pushed now, do you think the right of the Labour Party are sitting around waiting for him to settle in, he'll be in the centre ground before he's got his slippers on at this rate)

A big part of his pitch was democratising the party itself as part of building policy. Pushing him is grand but pointless after three days, prior to the laying out of any major plans or programmes. Especially with so long until an election. In six months time, if nothing has changed and nothing real is said on welfare then go crazy, demanding answers now though is the same pointless game as media doorsteppers play though.

 

[YouSir]

I give up. Glassy eyed hero worship. Nothing good will come of it.

Of course failing waiting to see what happens after more than three days you could just dismiss those who are willing to and throw your arms up in despair. Your right but it contributes nothing to anything.

 

[smokedout]

it's not just after three days though is it, we know what Labour have thought, we know what Corbyn has voted for, we know what the TUC, McClusky etc and all the other actors in this have said about social security. this isn't year zero.

 

[Louis MacNeice]

Both Corbyn and Osborne agree with raising wages to cut the benefits bill. Osborne's plan will actually leave people worse off. We don't know what corbyn's plan will do because he doesn't seem to have one yet, or at least not one he's prepared to admit.

Thanks for restating this more clearly. However, I think you're wrong for two reasons.

Fisrtly, Osborne's concern with raising the minimum wage is not to reduce benefit spending since it won't do that; please go and have a look at the IFS link. Osborne's concern is to spike the living wage debate by co-opting some of its language.

Secondly, it is unreasonable to expect Corbyn and his shadow cabinet to have a workout and costed policy response to both low pay and benefits in the first week of his leadership. This is especially true given the twin constraints of his public commitment to democratising the policy process and the hostility of a significant section of the PLP.

Osborne is a shit. Perhaps Corbyn will turn out to be one. But chucking them both in the same shit bin now is surely a bit premature and unhelpful?

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

 

[belboid]

I give up.

good

Glassy eyed hero worship. Nothing good will come of it.

not at all, I am critical of various of his actions to date. But of his actions, not because he hasn't detailed policy in every area yet. Push him, yes, but don't come out with as bunch of right wing shit because he hasn't said what you wanted him to (yet?)

 

[YouSir]

it's not just after three days though is it, we know what Labour have thought, we know what Corbyn has voted for, we know what the TUC, McClusky etc and all the other actors in this have said about social security. this isn't year zero.

So the new members, new power balance and new democratic policy programme changes nothing at all? This'll all just be a continuation of New Labour routine? Perhaps, perhaps Corbyn will fail at everything, the shift on power will prove illusory and the shift in membership will drift away. Or perhaps not. At this point neither of us have any way of knowing either way.

 

[gimesumtruf]

There are new members that he announced today, it does'nt sound as people are giving up

 

[belboid]

Key points from his speech to TUC - steadfast defense of unions, and opposition to welfare cuts

 

[Treacle Toes]

Just in time...

 

[Wilf]

So the new members, new power balance and new democratic policy programme changes nothing at all? This'll all just be a continuation of New Labour routine? Perhaps, perhaps Corbyn will fail at everything, the shift on power will prove illusory and the shift in membership will drift away. Or perhaps not. At this point neither of us have any way of knowing either way.

For me, the problem isn't that he'll carry on as new labour - he won't - it's that he'll be a 21st Century version of old labour.

 

[Treacle Toes]

Glassy eyed hero worship. Nothing good will come of it.

I absolutely agree. We should and do know better about creating heroes in this way.

However, all this frothing/spin and doublespeak about nothing needs calling out for what it is.

 

[gosub]

I think the establishment is making a Scotland sized mistake. Granted established thinking is that you have a small window in which people make up their mind about you, very early on in a tenure. Thus his opponents are trying to seize the narrative and paint him in a bad light and loads of sniggers from them that he himself isn't also doing the same thing. But if you go over the top, and it doesn't quite resonate with what you are seeing you just end up with the public being dismissive of the criticism while all the while giving Corbyn time to improve his skills on the job this making the criticism seem even more hollow. Mainstream media is still the most powerful influencer of public opinion but it is on the wane and can ill afford to get this wrong.



Also on a quite interesting Newsnight last night (Margaret Beckett Foreign Secretary by accident - who knew), Angela Eagles PMQ's will be up against Osbourne - shrew move, one Labour MP's bitching about her not getting McDonnell's job should think about. it looks like Hilary Benn marked his own card too, Chuka Umunna was supposed to have resigned from the shadow cabinet coz Corbyn wouldn't say Labour would campaign for In no matter what, though mr benn as shadow foriegn Secretary seems to think he can say that, thought Eagle was right to say it would be a dull move to say that at this stage.

 

[YouSir]

I absolutely agree. We should and do know better about creating heroes in this way.

However, all this frothing/spin and doublespeak about nothing needs calling out for what it is.

Over excited students aside I've seen a lot more cynical optimism than blind adoration. Hardly building monuments to him.

 

[Treacle Toes]

Over excited students aside I've seen a lot more cynical optimism than blind adoration. Hardly building monuments to him.

I personally think that we still have 4 years to go and a lot can happen in that time. I am not being cynical and welcome a shift back left within the Labour party...I certainly ain't gonna get all Jezmania anytime soon though. The long game needs to be played IMO.

 

[YouSir]

For me, the problem isn't that he'll carry on as new labour - he won't - it's that he'll be a 21st Century version of old labour.

To be honest I know a lot of people who want that. Faulted though Labour always has and always will be if you've grown up either under Tories or Blair then anything is a welcome shift. A point that the right have missed in their 'return to the '70s' fear mongering. And one that the Left has missed a bit too tbh.

 

[YouSir]

I personally think that we still have 4 years to go and a lot can happen in that time. I am not being cynical and welcome a shift back left within the Labour party...I certainly ain't gonna get all Jezmania anytime soon though. The long game needs to be played IMO.

Same. Jezmania is a moot point though really. It means nothing and when social media moves on the idea will be forgotten. As you say, it's the long game that counts.

 

[J Ed]

This definitely sounds true and not something entirely fabricated by a Murdoch journalist

 

[Pickman's model]

eh, nobody I know cares a jot. Mentioned it to my brother and he just used it as an excuse to wheel out an extremely bad taste simon weston joke

thought you'd have a wider range of acquaintances

 

[J Ed]

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

The absurd and hysterical media attacks on Corbyn can not possibly be sustained for 5 years at this level. They may well backfire too.

Therefore, I'd anticipate that the pressure and tactics will change at some point, more nonsense puff for the tories, attacks on the social movement beyond just Corbyn.

There will also be lots of "sober dissection" of the opposition, mostly for the effect of saying "look how sober we are being", thus making any slams against him seem more credible.

So, peaks and troughs, sturm und drang, false efforts to appear reasonable, then putting the boot good and proper at key points.

In other words, the classic patterns of the abuser.

 

[Wilf]

To be honest I know a lot of people who want that. Faulted though Labour always has and always will be if you've grown up either under Tories or Blair then anything is a welcome shift. A point that the right have missed in their 'return to the '70s' fear mongering. And one that the Left has missed a bit too tbh.

I was in the Labour party from 79 through to about 1988, so there's a kind of nostalgia for all that in me - at least the Labour Party pre IMF loans and the austerity unleashed by Denis Healey. It's just that that old world of prices and income policy, semi corporatist government, keynesian (male) full employment, clearly defined public sector, nationalisation and the like isn't there to be had any more.

 

[belboid]

This definitely sounds true and not something entirely fabricated by a Murdoch journalist

Naah, there will always be some like that. From BALPA and the like. It is kinda nice to see its the old union bureaucrats being the right-wig tossers again tho.

 

[J Ed]

Naah, there will always be some like that. From BALPA and the like. It is kinda nice to see its the old union bureaucrats being the right-wig tossers again tho.

True, I was always mystified that the scab union at the bank I worked for was affiliated to the TUC when all the 'union reps' were coincidentally also middle managers who reacted to the word 'strike' as if you said 'I am going to run through this call centre with an axe beheading every third person'.

 

[Pickman's model]

because you actually have a Labour leader who is opposed to the attacks on benefits that every other labour leader has supported for the past twenty years? I know lots of claimants, and they overwhelmingly said they think he's the only fucker who appears to be on their side.

& appearances always a true indicator of substance

 

[J Ed]

Four reasons Jeremy Corbyn needs a spin doctor

If his first 48 hours at the helm of the Labour party have demonstrated one thing, it is that Jeremy Corbyn badly needs a spin doctor.

In decision after decision, he has been making controversial calls that are bound to upset a lot of people. In case after case, however, there is at least an argument for what he is doing – and yet nobody has heard it.

I would argue instead that, 'If his first 48 hours at the helm of the Labour party have demonstrated one thing, it is that The Guardian badly needs a better spin doctor and editorial staff so that it does not alienate its few remaining readers'

 

[Pickman's model]

Of course failing waiting to see what happens after more than three days you could just dismiss those who are willing to and throw your arms up in despair. Your right but it contributes nothing to anything.

don't talk such cobblers.

 

[Pickman's model]

he's had four fucking months to elaborate a welfare policy

 

[Sprocket.]

The guardian along with every other mainstream newspaper have been dead to me for years. Tools of the oppressors all of them.