Corbyn & Cabinet in the Media

[ItWillNeverWork]

Fucksake. You've just invented something for me to think in the first sentence, then argued against that for the rest of the post.

You misunderstand. I'll rephrase.

Isn't this just a re-jig of the tired old "he's unelectable" mantra we kept hearing a few months back? This mantra doesn't provide any criticism of policy, and it doesn't acknowledgement of the fact he keeps getting elected. It's a mantra that cares only about how politicians present themselves, not about what they actually offer.

 

[killer b]

OK. No, it isn't.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

Gr8 bantz.

 

[agricola]

I don't get how that follows, sorry.

It is because of what you are criticizing them for - the show is basically edited highlights of what went on, when they have no actual responsibilities to be out of their depth of anyway, and it takes place in a time when the media / political class define competence to the rest of us by a very narrow set of parameters (basically your shiny, duplicitous, and professional) and endlessly highlight those who meet such criteria (like that Trudeau) and those who don't (Corbyn).

 

[killer b]

I see vice have helpfully summarised our argument for us: Richard Seymour covers your side - Why Jeremy Corbyn Can't Be Measured Like Other Leaders | VICE | United Kingdom and I get will self... 'Bathetic and Pathetic': Corbyn's Normcore Schtick Is Utterly Ineffectual | VICE | United Kingdom

 

[ska invita]

Wonder what's going through Seamas's mind here

he really doesnt look well...seems to be cracking under the pressure....hes also started to look like Brian from Spaced

 

[newbie]

Any longterm strategy is risky. I still think he's playing 'lose your losers' early in the game, so that later on when it actually matters they don't rear up and bite.

His personal future, and the LP GE prospects really don't depend on what happens right now. Apparently pointlessly bringing the Falklands into focus (which is the last time I said this) or showing up how unpolished he is may appear to be self inflicted wounds, but actually they just neutralise criticism that's going to come anyway. He is going to be personally attacked on a whole variety of issues, whether he likes it or not, and those attacks are going to come when it matters, during the GE campaign (or possibly a leadership battle). Exercising them out of the way now is a defensive strategy, by the time the GE comes we'll all be bored with this line of attack.

So long as his (and his teams) honesty and integrity remain untarnished, if everyone has known for years that he has opinions that don't chime with the mainstream and that he struggles with presentation far more than a Blair or Cameron, then when the inevitable attacks come we'll all say 'that's just Jeremy'.

 

[ska invita]

from will selfs thing:

"Corbyn's normcore shtick may work on the campaign trail, but at the despatch box it's utterly ineffectual − and this is not a trivial point: all of British politics, as currently constituted, bodies-out from those parliamentary confrontations. Ours is an adversarial system, one which simply grinds to a halt if one of the adversaries won't even step into the ring."

And the film hints at this same frustration that he doesnt kick the torys when theyre down...

I dont agree wtih Will's basic premise above. Most people really dont give a shit what happens at PMQs, nor which cheap rehtorical point is scored. In fact they find the whole charade an emabrassement. Corbyn refusing to play is to his credit.

Voters do make their impressions about a person through a range of encounters.
Corbyn is playing a long game of integrity and that path really might just work by the time the election rolls around - it is not impossible.

 

[ska invita]

Observing Corbyn, hesitantly rehearsing his lines for Prime Minister's Question Time, his advisors applauding pre-scripted points and put-downs, I thought not of The Thick of It − because say what you will about Malcolm Tucker et al, they at least have a brutal brio − but of some amateur dramatists suddenly called on to the world stage.

PMQs is not the world stage, its an outdated westminster village pantomime. Not even that, its a farce.

 

[newbie]

them most effective Labour opposition performer I've ever heard was Kinnock- in those days it was twice a week and absolutely rivetting. Look what happened to him.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

them most effective Labour opposition performer I've ever heard was Kinnock- in those days it was twice a week and absolutely rivetting. Look what happened to him.

And look at Attlee, who had no charisma whatsoever and was said by Churchill to be "a very modest man with much to be modest about". Turned out OK in the end though.

 

[newbie]

Much as I enjoy seeing tories being kicked, they're doing as grand job of it between themselves at the moment. The other part of losing losers is keeping the winners to be played when it matters.

 

[killer b]

See, I dont give a shit about charisma, and was happy To believe the stuff about the long game until recently: but loads of things recently have pointed instead to someone who's floundering. Who can blame him if he is? He has the entire might of the establishment - government, media, most of his own party - focused on destroying him.

Previously he's seemed relaxed about the attacks, expecting them as part of the deal. In this doc he appears angry and perplexed about them. What's changed?

 

[brogdale]

Having given this some thought...I'm tending to agree that this whole mess is Corbyn's fault; the bastard.

EU referendum: Corbyn urged to be 'bolder and braver' in making case for immigration

 

[ska invita]

@kb

Maybe its a well judged and subtle attempt to create a counter narrative? Where else can he complain about it?
Maybe...


Anyhow, I'm not fussed about anything here, so long as theres a strong campaign ahead of the election that activates new members.... That's the real challenge

 

[newbie]

See, I dont give a shit about charisma, and was happy To believe the stuff about the long game until recently: but loads of things recently have pointed instead to someone who's floundering. Who can blame him if he is? He has the entire might of the establishment - government, media, most of his own party - focused on destroying him.

Previously he's seemed relaxed about the attacks, expecting them as part of the deal. In this doc he appears angry and perplexed about them. What's changed?

A documentary on Vice isn't the entire might of the establishment. Their focus is elsewhere at the moment, and his obsessive opponents are struggling to get any column inches at all, as the 'bolder and braver' nonsense demonstrates.

 

[killer b]

A documentary on Vice isn't the entire might of the establishment.

I know it isn't.

 

[newbie]

I know it isn't.

I'm not doubting that

When he raised the Falklands he got both barrels from the establishment and a lot of the rest of the population, including many nominally on his side. Full on, front page, everyone talking about it. Now, no-one has any interest in the subject at all.

As ska invita suggested, this little documentary gets out there the notion that he doesn't play the same game as the rest of them and finds their ways of behaving perplexing. Or, as Self said "Ours is an adversarial system, one which simply grinds to a halt if one of the adversaries won't even step into the ring." If he plays it right the longer Cameron or his successor keep up their outdated and tawdry public school/Oxbridge ritual the ever more out of touch he'll make them look.

 

[cantsin]

Well, let's just take one thing from the doc, that ridiculous staged phone call with milne about Jonathan freedland: someone actually thought it was a good idea to do that in front of a documentary crew. And he then actually did it. And no-one stopped him. That's three levels of clueless on just one event.

The weird paranoid complaint about one in three lines of attack being leaked to the tories, that weird school parliament PMQs role play... it was all embarrassing. Not unpolished, not refreshingly non-political: just clueless. Out of their depth.

Freedland call - didnt seem staged to me , was more like expressing (understandable) frustration vs Freedland, and Milne said something like ' agreed, but best not in front of cameras' at the other end, which meant the slightly awkward / stiff end to call.

Stuff getting leaked to the Tories from within a PLP that is 90% anti Corbyn ? have heard of stranger things happening within Westminster

Role play routine ? Imagine that's standard m.o.

 

[cantsin]

Isn't this just a re-jig of the tired old "he's unelectable" mantra we kept hearing a few months back? No criticism of policy, and no acknowledgement of the fact he keeps getting... um... elected. It's all just about presentation.

at the moment, its exactly what this is - weird to see on here

 

[two sheds]

When he raised the Falklands he got both barrels from the establishment and a lot of the rest of the population, including many nominally on his side. Full on, front page, everyone talking about it. Now, no-one has any interest in the subject at all.

Criticisms like the Falklands, friend-of-terrorists, anti-Semites go in cycles, though. Every few months there'll be a Labour MP asking why the Israelis are killing so many Palestinians or Cameron will bring up Hamas again for no particular reason and we'll have another week of front pages that Labour's full of anti-semites and Corbyn's a terrorist apologist .... then wash and rinse ...

 

[cantsin]

I see vice have helpfully summarised our argument for us: Richard Seymour covers your side - Why Jeremy Corbyn Can't Be Measured Like Other Leaders | VICE | United Kingdom and I get will self... 'Bathetic and Pathetic': Corbyn's Normcore Schtick Is Utterly Ineffectual | VICE | United Kingdom

so you're firmly on Will ' i send to my kids to private school / but am still a wild bohemian oppositionist' Self's side of the fence at this stage ?

His piece is risible.

 

[killer b]

I don't totally agree with his analysis, but I think he has some good points.

 

[cantsin]

from will selfs thing:



And the film hints at this same frustration that he doesnt kick the torys when theyre down...

I dont agree wtih Will's basic premise above. Most people really dont give a shit what happens at PMQs, nor which cheap rehtorical point is scored. In fact they find the whole charade an emabrassement. Corbyn refusing to play is to his credit.

Voters do make their impressions about a person through a range of encounters.
Corbyn is playing a long game of integrity and that path really might just work by the time the election rolls around - it is not impossible.

"will "s bought into the whole rotten spectacle, big time, he's a has been.

 

[Dogsauce]

From what I've seen, McDonnell seems more effective/combative, though perhaps he has the luxury of not having to personally deal with a media vendetta.

 

[killer b]

Other criticisms aside, it sounds like he nailed his euro speech today.

 

[treelover]

Why do you think that, because he defended free movement, refugees, etc, or some other reason.

 

[belboid]

Why do you think that, because he defended free movement, refugees, etc, or some other reason.

You're fucking obsessed

 

[ska invita]

What a cunt.

"Tom Harris is a former Labour MP and government minister at the Department for Transport. He now runs his own company, Third Avenue Communications Ltd, offering lobbying and political strategy advice. He is a member of the advisory board of the Reform Scotland think tank and maintains a Blairite perspective on UK politics."

Writing in his spiritual home:
Labour's pathetic blame games can't hide Jeremy Corbyn's own flaws

And the telegraphs little Poll at the end of the piece is quite possibly the single most cunitsh thing ive seen yet...and this coming from a 'broadsheet'. Unbelievable.
It ask readers to vote:

Where is Jeremy Corbyn?
Tending to his marrows in the allotment


Polishing his beloved bicycle


Out shopping for bargain vests


Perfecting his selfie face for Snapchat

 

[killer b]

Why do you think that, because he defended free movement, refugees, etc, or some other reason.

Is that all you heard there? I'm glad he defended free movement, because I think it's something that should be defended - and I think the way he defended it was the right way to do it too.

But that really was a minor part of the speech - look at all the other things he did: laying out an alternative, thoughtful defence of the EU, laying into the tories and setting out what a labour govt would do differently, positioning himself as a non-hysterical, sensible voice you can trust... it was a brilliant balancing act a great piece of rhetoric, whether you agree with him or not. Whoever wrote it knows what they're doing...