Conspiraloon arrested

[Badger Kitten]

Man in court on foot of UK extradition warrant

Tuesday, 10 February 2009

A 60-year-old man wanted in the UK on a charge of perverting the course of justice during the trial of a number of men in connection with the London bomb attacks has appeared in the High Court this afternoon.

Anthony John Hill, orginially from Sheffield, was arrested on Carrig Street in Kells this morning on foot of a warrant issued by the authorities in Britain.

It is alleged he sent DVDs entitled "7/7 Ripple Effect" to the jury, the judge and members of the victims' families.

The DVDs claimed the attack was an inside job and that the accused men were innocent.

The men in question are accused of conspiring with the bombers and of helping them to kill over 50 people on July 7th, 2005.

The High Court heard that, when arrested this morning, Hill said: "I sent them, I believe those men to be innocent."

He has been remanded in custody until February 18th.

source

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

Looks like Perverting The Cause to me.

Having said that, the press frequently drivel and drool over nasty cases in a way that sometimes could P the C, they never get done for it though. Bread and Circuses is so much less dangerous than challenging the narratives of loving government what never lies or covers nothing up.

 

[editor]

Looks like Perverting The Cause to me.

Having said that, the press frequently drivel and drool over nasty cases in a way that sometimes could P the C, they never get done for it though. Bread and Circuses is so much less dangerous than challenging the narratives of loving government what never lies or covers nothing up.

The press can act disgracefully, but I don't believe they're in the habit of personally mailing out lunatic DVDs to the jury, the judge and members of the victims' families.

 

[In Bloom]

The press can act disgracefully, but I don't believe they're in the habit of personally mailing out lunatic DVDs to the jury, the judge and members of the victims' families.

Arguably they don't need to, they can reach pretty much the whole country whenever they want. I mean, you can't really claim some amateur made DVD mailed out to members of the jury by some nutter is likely to have a greater effect on the verdict than say, a press campaign villifying the defendants (far from unknown, especially in cases like this).

Either way, the guy's clearly not the full shilling, locking him up for this is a bit harsh.

 

[editor]

Arguably they don't need to, they can reach pretty much the whole country whenever they want. I mean, you can't really claim some amateur made DVD mailed out to members of the jury by some nutter is likely to have a greater effect on the verdict than say, a press campaign villifying the defendants (far from unknown, especially in cases like this).

Either way, the guy's clearly not the full shilling, locking him up for this is a bit harsh.

That cunt sent his nutjob wibblings to five relatives of people who had been killed during the bombing. Fuck him.

 

[In Bloom]

That cunt sent his nutjob wibblings to five relatives of people who had been killed during the bombing. Fuck him.

I'm not saying he's nice, just that his actions probably didn't pervert the course of justice in any meaningful way and that he may not being entirely responsible for his actions by virtue of being a mental.

 

[editor]

I'm not saying he's nice, just that his actions probably didn't pervert the course of justice in any meaningful way and that he may not being entirely responsible for his actions by virtue of being a mental.

Has it been established that he has mental health issues?

Some relatively sane people seem to be believe it's all an conspiracy by The Man.

 

[In Bloom]

Has it been established that he has mental health issues?

Some relatively sane people seem to be believe it's a conspiracy.

Most of them aren't posting DVDs to members of the victim's families, that's not normal behaviour. More importantly (to me, anyway), it seems silly to go after this one bloke for something so trifling in the grand scheme of things when major news outlets do far more to pervert the course of justice.

 

[laptop]

I'm not saying he's nice, just that his actions probably didn't pervert the course of justice in any meaningful way

Assessing whether an attempt to pervert the course of justice would have been effective doesn't play much part in verdict, afaik. It might mitigate sentence.

The charge would be that his actions were intended to pervert the c of j.

If he were done for contempt of court, it'd be different: to invoke the "strict liability rule" (guilty if shown to have published, regardless of intent) the state has to show that the material "creates a substantial risk that the course of justice in the proceedings in question will be seriously impeded or prejudiced."

and that he may not being entirely responsible for his actions by virtue of being a mental.

Trouble is, the nature of conspiraloon fruitloopery is that they're likely to claim that the rest of the world is mad, not them; refuse to plead insanity even where it's manifest; and go to jail.

Estimated time until the word "martyr" appears in the same sentence as his name - fuck it, I bet it already has.

 

[_float_]

A few more details in the Irish Times story: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0211/1233867931721.html

(PS. He might have 'issues' but comments about 'nutjobs' and 'mentals' can be a bit offensive to people with mental health problems. It is possible to have depression, hear voices, sometimes have manic episodes, have phobias etc - without being criminal, holding stupid views, or generally being a drooling idiot or a danger to society. "1 in 4 British adults experience at least one diagnosable mental health problem in any one year, and one in six experiences this at any given time. - The Office for National Statistics Psychiatric Morbidity report (2001)" link )

 

[laptop]

A few more details in the Irish Times story: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0211/1233867931721.html

Odd that only papers in the island of Ireland seem to have covered it so far...
according to news.google.com at this hour, anyway.

 

[In Bloom]

Assessing whether an attempt to pervert the course of justice would have been effective doesn't play much part in verdict, afaik. It might mitigate sentence.

The charge would be that his actions were intended to pervert the c of j.

If he were done for contempt of court, it'd be different: to invoke the "strict liability rule" (guilty if shown to have published, regardless of intent) the state has to show that the material "creates a substantial risk that the course of justice in the proceedings in question will be seriously impeded or prejudiced."

I don't doubt that his alleged actions fall under the legal definition of perverting the course of justice, I just think that any law that prosecutes this bloke while leaving the bastards in charge of the press, who do far more to pervert the course of justice, alone is fundamentally flawed.

Trouble is, the nature of conspiraloon fruitloopery is that they're likely to claim that the rest of the world is mad, not them; refuse to plead insanity even where it's manifest; and go to jail.

Estimated time until the word "martyr" appears in the same sentence as his name - fuck it, I bet it already has.

True enough, I'm sure he'd be all to happy to go to prison (is that likely with this though, mightn't he get off with a fine?), more "proof" that there really is a conspiracy, I suppose.

 

[_float_]

Ha ha ha!

One lot of "truth seekers" slagging off another...


7/7 Ripple Effect - a rebuttal and rejection

www. julyseventh.co.uk/j-for-justice-77-ripple-effect.html
<direct link broken to prevent url thingumyjiggy>

edited to add: browsing their site and just saw this:

"On 1st September 2008 Paul Stott, via his 9/11 CultWatch blog announced that he, along with Dr. Larry O'Hara, would be presenting papers to the Anarchist Studies Network Conference at Loughborough University. Stott's effort was entitled “Half Truth Movement: How The 9/11 Cult Falsifies History”. The following was written in response to Stott's paper, in particular, the following paragraph directly aimed at the July 7th Truth Campaign:"

www. julyseventh.co.uk/july-7-article-response-to-paul-stott-anarchist-studies-network-talk.html
<direct link broken to prevent url thingumyjiggy>

 

[In Bloom]

A few more details in the Irish Times story: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0211/1233867931721.html

(PS. He might have 'issues' but comments about 'nutjobs' and 'mentals' can be a bit offensive to people with mental health problems. It is possible to have depression, hear voices, sometimes have manic episodes, have phobias etc - without being criminal, holding stupid views, or generally being a drooling idiot or a danger to society. "1 in 4 British adults experience at least one diagnosable mental health problem in any one year, and one in six experiences this at any given time. - The Office for National Statistics Psychiatric Morbidity report (2001)" link )

I'll make you a deal, I won't use the words "mental", "nutter" or "whackjob" again if you'll spare me your pious wibbling.

 

[laptop]

I don't doubt mmmmph!

We all have to doubt it - I fear proceedings are active in the sense of the Contempt of Court Act 1981

I just think that any law that prosecutes this bloke while leaving the bastards in charge of the press, who do far more to pervert the course of justice, alone is fundamentally flawed.

Your draft of a law that would catch what they do (without completely destroying any remaining freedom to report events of political interest) is eagerly awaited.

They can afford pretty smart lawyers who can say "you can't put it that way... but if you considered saying this..."

I know, I deal with such lawyers from time to time.

The leaks from the police that are designed to pervert the c of j may be easier to deal with. Compulsory GPS implants and phone-taps on all detectives now

 

[laptop]

comments about 'nutjobs' and 'mentals'

Have you read your own link?

Both the video and website are authored by Muad'Dib (the name of a fictional character from Frank Herbert's Dune) who believes he is the Sheffield-born messiah and demands 'that he be acknowledged as the Rightful British-Israel King.' He also appears to hold rather offensive, anti-Muslim views:

That person as described (and, Attorney-General note, I am not suggesting that the word "Sheffield" means that is this person, oh no) is a fruitloop nutjob par excellence, no?

 

[laptop]

Quick! Cloak this thread before O'Hara arrives!

 

[TomPaine]

"7/7 Ripple Effect"

This is interesting. The guy who made that David Von Kleist I believe, has a radio show over here in the US every morning (based out of Missouri I believe). They also have 9/11 victims at their talks/on their radio show. I've heard them before on the radio over here and they did some fund raising event I believe with the one of the tribes up in North Dakota last year.
He def has some odd/wacky views, but I wouldn't consider him dangerous to be honest (well from my very limited knowledge of listening him talk about green tea or some crap on he radio).

This is ironic when you consider the case of the Ipswich prostitute murders. Some guys name got splashed all over the papers before he was charged, then turned out to be ther wrong person. I am surprised this person has been arrested for sending DVDs when the MSM happily ply their bullshit, yes the Mail and the Guardian and anyone else selling "news" for money.

 

[In Bloom]

We all have to doubt it - I fear prceedings are active in the sense of the Contempt of Court Act 1981

Post edited.

Your draft of a law that would catch what they do (without completely destroying any remaining freedom to report events of political interest) is eagerly awaited.

I'm less of a legislator, more of a semi-professional moaner

They can afford pretty smart lawyers who can say "you can't put it that way... but if you considered saying this..."

Yeah, my earlier post was badly put, the problem is the whole legal system (which favours those who can hire better lawyers, in addition to laws being drafted to serve certain interests), rather than one specific law. Though saying that, a law preventing the press from naming suspects in cases of violent crime and sex offences would be a good start.

The leaks from the police that are designed to pervert the c of j may be easier to deal with. Compulsory GPS implants and phone-taps on all detectives now

Sounds entirely fair and reasonable to me

 

[_float_]

I'll make you a deal, I won't use the words "mental", "nutter" or "whackjob" again if you'll spare me your pious wibbling.

Pious wibbling?

So you don't care how fucking offensive you are about people who really don't deserved it? Who in effect get lumped in with some really extreme people/actions?

It isn't using specific words that are so depressing, it is the catch-all nature of being labelled "a mental".

Have you been labelled "a mental"? Does it impact on your life? If not then try a little experiment - tell various people that you have a mental health problem and see what happens in your life. See how you enjoy people labelling you as "a mental". Then extend this for the rest of your fucking life. Extend it to threads on u75. See how you fucking like it. You stupid, shallow, fucking cunt.

 

[In Bloom]

Pious wibbling?

So you don't care how fucking offensive you are about people who really don't deserved it? Who in effect get lumped in with some really extreme people/actions?

It isn't using specific words that are so depressing, it is the catch-all nature of being labelled "a mental".

Have you been labelled "a mental"? Does it impact on your life? If not then try a little experiment - tell various people that you have a mental health problem and see what happens in your life. See how you enjoy people labelling you as "a mental". Then extend this for the rest of your fucking life. Extend it to threads on u75. See how you fucking like it. You stupid, shallow, fucking cunt.

I have a history of depression and anxiety attacks. Call me what you like, doesn't arse me.

 

[laptop]

Just because nearly one in six people may be warm, caring, empathetic individuals with mental health issues whose lives may be impacted negatively by the label "nutjob" must not prevent us using the label to describe, accurately, those who are poisonous, pernicious and preposterous nutjobs.

See?

 

[TomPaine]

I'm not even sure why the thread was started with the phrase conspiroloon anyway to be honest. Who gives a fuck what he believes, I believe in freedom of speech, even if I disagree with what he says. If the press can get away with their bullshit, then it seems hypocritical to take this man to the gallows.

 

[laptop]

I'm not even sure why the thread was started with the phrase conspiroloon anyway to be honest. Who gives a fuck what he believes, I believe in freedom of speech, even if I disagree with what he says. If the press can get away with their bullshit, then it seems hypocritical to take this man to the gallows.

You're arguing from a state where:

1. the tobacco industry funded the ACLU to establish the legal concept "commercial speech" to ensure that advertising was covered by the Sacred First Amendment Right to say anything, however stupid;
2. as a consequence, juries are locked up to prevent them accessing the "free" media during a trial;
3. and as a further consequence, being daft and ill-informed appears to increase one's chances of serving on a jury.

Your arguments do not, therefore, apply in the UK.

In the UK, the legal system has taken a different approach, imposing restrictions on reporting as an alternative to ill-informed jurors.

New thread for any argument on this point, please.

 

[_float_]

Have you read your own link?

...That person as described (and, Attorney-General note, I am not suggesting that the word "Sheffield" means that is this person, oh no) is a fruitloop nutjob par excellence, no?

I don't have much of an issue with saying that this specific guy is a nutjob, if it is based on specifics...

...its just when the conversation comes down to blanket discussion of "mentals" as a generic group of people, the kind of reverse logic where anyone doing anything unusual/stupid is "a mental" and vice-versa arguments that "mentals" are stupid/antisocial etc.

...'specific-versus-general' kind of thing.

There are enough grounds to argue against the typical conspiracy theory in terms of the flawed logic and lack of sufficient evidence without needing to propose mental illness - after all a sane person can believe shite and a madman can tell the truth.

Also the law typically operates by arresting someone and only then deciding if they need a 'pass' or alternative treatment due to health/mental issues, rather than saying 'he's mad, let's not bother'.

 

[laptop]

There are enough grounds to argue against the typical conspiracy theory in terms of the flawed logic and lack of sufficient evidence without needing to propose mental illness

But conspiraloons do exhibit symptoms of psychosis.

I've had enough long conversations with people diagnosed as schizophrenic to recognise the common factors.

after all a sane person can believe shite

But a test of sanity is willingness to abandon a shite belief...

and a madman can tell the truth

Only, therefore, by accident*


* In the context of his madness. Inbetween "episodes"... when he's telling the truth for cause... he's, er, not mad, actually.

 

[TomPaine]

Your arguments do not, therefore, apply in the UK.

I'm English and I live in the US thanks. You other comments are straw men. The UK lacks freedom of speech simple fact.

 

[TomPaine]

But conspiraloons do exhibit symptoms of psychosis.

wow... define conspiroloon first thanks. You sound like some sort of religious nut with the above comment. Do we have to believe they do based on your word?

 

[In Bloom]

But conspiraloons do exhibit symptoms of psychosis.

That's a little bit broad, don't you think? Most conspiracy theorists are, largely, normal, functioning people who, for whatever reason, buy into a logically flawed view of the world. If conspiracy theorists can be considered psychotic, so can religious people.

 

[laptop]

Do we have to believe they do based on your word?

Watch me:

I've had enough long conversations with people diagnosed as schizophrenic to recognise the common factors.

Listen to schizophrenics.

Listen to conspiraloons.

Think hard about the structures of argument.

Decide.