Urban75 Home About Offline BrixtonBuzz Contact

Conservative UKIP merger

el-ahrairah said:
The Tories are not going to leave the EU. Whilst a number of their party are anti-EU the majority of Tories are pro-Europe for economic reasons. It would cost their backers way too much to leave Europe and would fuck our economy if we did.
Click to expand...

Thats correct their main gripe is the Delors era reforms which had the temerity to try and balance the single market with minimum standards for workers. Major's efforts to reject them never gained much support in this country and if anything the Tories have moved too far away from the centre ground on Europe to placate the obsessive bores on its back benches.

Whatever public opinion polls say about a majority leaving the EU hardly anyone is going to put their money where their mouth is on the issue. Even UKIP supporters have difficulty expressing their anti EU position beyond visceral emotion and a few vacuous cliches about being 'run by Brussels'.
 
There's not going to be a merger, or a pact. Neither side would benefit.

You might see a handful (if that) of minor players from one or other switch sides. Maybe.

Cameron ain't going anywhere till after the election. Why would anyone launch a leadership challenge prior to a GE they know they're going to lose?

5 pages of crazy talk.
 
thedockerslad said:
UKIP are not in a position to push discourse any way. You are falling in to the media fuelled belief that party politics matters at all.
Click to expand...

Is there meant to be some logic connecting those sentences?

Let's ignore your uninformed speculation about my state of mind and treat the second one as an assertion that party politics doesn't matter, contrary to media-fuelled belief.
 
Bernie Gunther said:
Is there meant to be some logic connecting those sentences?

Let's ignore your uninformed speculation about my state of mind and treat the second one as an assertion that party politics doesn't matter, contrary to media-fuelled belief.
Click to expand...

Politically, you are an idiot.
 
So I just had a bit of a look at your posting history dockerslad.

Seems that you're making a habit of calling names and that you're being cut a surprising amount of slack ...

<slightly harsher comment snipped>
 
andysays said:
A pact and a merger are clearly quite different things. The first clue is that we have different words for them.

But just to spell it out, a pact is an agreement of some sort, most likely not to stand candidates against each other in elections. It could refer to one specific election, or it could be all elections over a given period, but either way it's relatively limited, and open to either party to end should they wish.

A merger is a whole other level of agreement - basically it means that the two parties would become one, with not only a joint manifesto but also a single organisation. This is what the Liberal Party and the SDP did a few years ago, hence the Liberal Democrats. Once you've gone done this road, it's pretty much impossible to go back to the original two parties in the way they first were. I think the idea of a merger between the Conservatives and UKIP is a complete non-starter - never going to happen - why on earth would it?

The idea of a more limited electoral pact might be workable, but I still think it's unlikely and would need to hear strong counter-argument to persuade me otherwise.

So to answer your question (whoever you were originally asking it of), yes, I genuinely believe that UKIP and the Conservative Party will continue to operate separately and to field candidates against each other in forthcoming council and Westminster elections for the next few years.
Click to expand...

Before Thursday you were undoubtedly right, today it's a different kettle of fish.
 
youngian said:
...Whatever public opinion polls say about a majority leaving the EU hardly anyone is going to put their money where their mouth is on the issue. Even UKIP supporters have difficulty expressing their anti EU position beyond visceral emotion and a few vacuous cliches about being 'run by Brussels'.
Click to expand...

True enough, but i wouldn't underestimate the sheer hubris-fueled fuckwittery which you can get from the kind of idiot politician that thinks we're still a great world power, that jobs grow on trees, that the human rights act is a bad thing and that withdrawing from our biggest trading partner would somehow trigger a boom in the economy...

I get the impression that the kind of braying yahoo who would make a an elected UKIP official is the kind of person who believes that the trouble we had in the '70s was the fault of the unions and that britain needs to be socially of the '50s, economically of the '80s and culturally of the '60s (with a smattering of late '90s 'cool britannia' bollocks thrown in). Sadly, if these clowns ever got into a position of true power, they'd be driving us as fast as possible towards a cross between the '30s (no NHS/welfare state & massive poverty) and mid-late '40s (fucked economy).

At the moment, UKIP's meal-ticket is the EU. However, if they ever were to ever get elected into government here, i could imagine that they would be 'comfortable' with our withdrawal. After all, not even this current crop of politicians can have their noses buried in two different institutional troughs...
 
coley said:
Before Thursday you were undoubtedly right, today it's a different kettle of fish.
Click to expand...

Maybe you'd like to go into a little more detail.

Are you thinking pact or merger? Can you provide any coherent argument why both parties would want to do such a thing?
 
Bernie Gunther said:
So I just had a bit of a look at your posting history dockerslad.

Seems that you're making a habit of calling names and that you're being cut a surprising amount of slack ...

<slightly harsher comment snipped>
Click to expand...

That's about the size of it - a lot of gobbing off, fuck-all substantive politics.
 
andysays said:
Maybe you'd like to go into a little more detail.

Are you thinking pact or merger? Can you provide any coherent argument why both parties would want to do such a thing?
Click to expand...
Cameron apologising, various Tory MPs saying they need a referendum now, nothing substantive but a nice degree of seething panic seems to be emerging.
 
andysays said:
Maybe you'd like to go into a little more detail. Are you thinking pact or merger? Can you provide any coherent argument why both parties would want to do such a thing?
Click to expand...

coley said:
Cameron apologising, various Tory MPs saying they need a referendum now, nothing substantive but a nice degree of seething panic seems to be emerging.
Click to expand...

Is that the best you can come up with? If so, it appears the answer to my question is no...
 
andysays said:
Maybe you'd like to go into a little more detail.

Are you thinking pact or merger? Can you provide any coherent argument why both parties would want to do such a thing?
Click to expand...
Wheyup, I wasn't suggesting pacts or mergers I Simply said that after Thursday it has become a ."different kettle of fish" with a lot more probabilities possible, make of that what you will.
 
coley said:
Wheyup, I wasn't suggesting pacts or mergers I Simply said that after Thursday it has become a ."different kettle of fish" with a lot more probabilities possible, make of that what you will.
Click to expand...

OK, no pacts, no mergers.Those were the options I was ruling out, and you appeared to be disagreeing.

So, how is it a different kettle of fish and, specifically, what probabilities are now possible since Thursday which weren't before?
 
andysays said:
OK, no pacts, no mergers.Those were the options I was ruling out, and you appeared to be disagreeing.

So, how is it a different kettle of fish and, specifically, what probabilities are now possible since Thursday which weren't before?
Click to expand...
I think quite a few Tories may now be thinking of jumping ship, there may be a leadership challenge, the Tories might panic and lurch to the right, all sorts of things that many certainly wouldn't have envisaged if UKIP had done poorly.
 
coley said:
I think quite a few Tories may now be thinking of jumping ship, there may be a leadership challenge, the Tories might panic and lurch to the right, all sorts of things that many certainly wouldn't have envisaged if UKIP had done poorly.
Click to expand...

i wonder how much further they can go to the right :eek:
 
ViolentPanda said:
Well, you do a good line in being contemptuous of others, but you haven't exactly enunciated your own politics amid all the sneering, have you?
Click to expand...

I stood off and watched the likes of butchersapron and that weird little bloke who spells things wrong.

Tell you what I'll tell you something about my politics if you tell me something about yours. I joined the LPYS in the early 1980s and didn't last a year.
 
Lawson has the veneer of a respected heavy weight but he is a man who rarely lunches outside the Square Mile. The whole narrative is based on grumbles about legislative threats to the City, who obviously have more connections with Singapore or the Caymens than Paris or Berlin. Note his patronising remarks about British industrys layabouts 'staying in warm embrace of the single market' and haven't noticed Asia is growing, as if they didn't know this.
Add to this his views on the scientific consensus on climate change, he is a discredited chancellor who cuts an eccentric figure these days.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Fez909
  • Poll
"The last Conservative government"
Replies
12
Views
553
Kaka Tim
Kaka Tim
Bingoman
Conservatives delete their twitter account lol
Replies
27
Views
882
ska invita
ska invita
Supine
Conservative Party Conference 2022
3 4 5 6 7
Replies
185
Views
10K
emanymton
emanymton
K
The Conservative and Unionist Party's time is up
2 3
Replies
74
Views
3K
ska invita
ska invita
PR1Berske
Conservative MP "bankruptcy" claim
2
Replies
46
Views
2K
Serene
Serene
Back
Top Bottom