Commie Bastards have one more success in Nepal!

[fishfingerer]

Whats your understanding of revolutions or civil war

I'm from Ireland and we've had a little thing going on here for the last while. You may have heard about it.

 

[Jessiedog]

Read Page 1 of the link on post 283 and tell me what it says, go on.

Read pages 40 - 45 as I've repeatedly requested and respond specifically to the points raised.

Will your kind ever understand that .....

You don't like dogs much, do you?

support for a cause is rarely, if ever, unconditional? [/b] Do you understand that just because one supports the broader aims of a cause, it does not automatically mean that one always agrees with the methods, ideology and tactics? Do you understand that? Yes or no will do.

Yes I do.

Do you understand that the Maoists, due to the atrocities they are perpetrating, are losing support - and rightly so? What more will it take before you come to your senses and recognise that what they are involved in is to the {I]detriment[/I] of Nepal's poor, not their betterment?



Everyone supports the "broader aims of the cause", fishfinger.

You suggest that one does not necessarily need to agree the mathods, ideology and tactics of a movement.

Do you categorically condemn the tactics, ideolgy and methods of the Maoists as listed in detail on this thread?

Or do you think forcing low caste, illiterate, penniless, peasants into service as "front line cannon fodder" is a good thing?

After breaking the cease-fire, the Maoists staged numerous deadly attacks onpolice and army posts, government facilities, and civilian areas, and forced thecountry’s economyto a standstill A significant proportion of the deaths associated with the insurgencyhave occurred since November 2001. Two of the deadliest battles came in May2002, when, according to Nepali officials, up to 650 rebels and at least 100 soldiersand police officers were killed.

From HERE. Another recent, lengthy, detailed and well referenced report from June 2005.

Do you, like Macabre, believe an invasion by the Indian army would sort the maoists out good and proper?(

Yes, it's possible I suppose; given the superior numbers, training and equipment.





I read your link.

As Macabre points out, it is written by a pro-Maoist journalist who parachuted into Nepal to do a couple of interviews and write a puff piece for the Maoists.

I hardly think this stacks up against the lengthy, detailed and well referenced reports recently produced by such bodiies as Human Rights Watch, Amnesty, et al and linked here.

Neither does it in any way refute any of the points these reports have made.

And yet, as Macabre has posted above, even this Maoist cheerleader Aniket Alam is forced to admit:

the Maoists are not in a position to capture state power in Kathmandu merely with the gun. "The geopolitical situation is such that a simple capture of power is impossible," says Govinda Sharma Bandi, an advocate in the Supreme Court of Nepal.

And:

But what is of greater significance is that people in the rural areas are also turning against the Maoists.

Anyway, it sounds like you're now backtracking and accepting that the Maoists are indeed a vicious and elitist-led force that is engaged in all the disgusting activities listed above, again, by Macabre. But you are now, inexplicably, trying to somehow justify the perpetration of these ongoing and worsening atrocities on the basis that "well, I don't agree with everything they do, but I support the objectives.".

That's crap frankly.

Denounce the ongoing and worsening atrocities commited by the Maoists. Go on, it won't hurt.



Woof

 

[fishfingerer]

War is bad.

 

[Jessiedog]

For the last fucking time, the maoists represent the least worst option in a shitty situation and the sooner the king gives in the better.

I beg to differ, and I rather think that those reading this thread will perhaps take their lead from the quality, depth, recentness, veracity, references and sources of the various reports we have provided for their perusal, rather than your own bloodthirsty rantings.

It has been clearly demonstrated from numerous sources each quoting numerous knowledgable references that the Maoists don't have a hope in hells chance of gaining the power they crave and are violently abusing the poor trying to secure. And that their continued prolonging of the war is taking a bad human rights situation (created by the govt) and rapidly turning it into a complete and total fucking human rights disaster, particularly effecting those they purport to represent.

As Macabre neatly sums it up.....

This war is about power, not class

Woof

 

[Jessiedog]

Well.

I think I'm probably just about done here.

There's already plenty enough info' on this thread to allow anyone reading it to identify the veracity of each side's arguments.

I'll pop back to see if there's anything new, but frankly there's been little new from either fishfinger or DUAF for a number of weeks now and little of substance at all.

Blessings all.



Woof

 

[DrRingDing]

There's already plenty enough info' on this thread to allow anyone reading it to identify the veracity of each side's arguments.

'plenty enough info'' my arse more like.

You read one poorly written, badly referenced biased paper and you think you know enough to damn the Nepalese w/c and their armed struggle.

I think you could start by reading the books I have referenced before you start believing the propaganda issued by 'Macabre'.

 

[DrRingDing]

We've have read everyone of your sources

Lying toerag.

Not only are you a conservative imperialist public school boy you are, suprise suprise a filthy liar to boot!

 

[DrRingDing]

Please give your source detailing the massive work that has been completed by the maoist, men and women, to overcome sex and caste discrimination and abuse. I’ve provided a even handed, independent source that show how they claim to fighting for equality but in practise are just perpetuating the caste and gender problems, you have yet to provide anything to back up you claims.

If you would look a little further at the references I have given you will find paper written by two female anthropologists detailing the justice that women can only get through the maoists.

I don't have the book with me but I will return with facts and figures.

The book clearly states that the VDCs don't give a flying fuck about women and most of them, yes most, think domestic violence is acceptable. Where maoists have control women have access to protection and justice.

This is a very well researched and referenced paper and the writers have gone to great lengths to get their infomation, which is a lot more than can be said for your very political reports you have googled up.

 

[DrRingDing]

DUAF, do you not find it odd that every single person on this thread who has some form of contact with Nepal is highly critical of the Maoists or are we all royalist, thatcherite, neo-liberals .

I have called nobody a 'Thatcherite'.

I await an apology.

 

[DrRingDing]

You preiodically refuse to comment on the Maoists actions; child soldier, perpetuating the caste system, rape, abductions, executions, school closures, etc. Not once have you shown this is not the case.

I am not refusing to comment on these accusations I actually have a life other than this thread on some oddball bulletin board on t'interweb.

Firstly!

Child soldiers? Your paper says the maoist have some youths aged between 15 and 18 and also that the vast majority of these do not engage in combat.

'Child soldiers' do you realise that you can join the british army at age 16.

Do you accuse the british army of using child soldiers? Or does that one year make such a difference?

 

[DrRingDing]

I would also bet that your average w/c 15 year old is far more mature than your average 16 year old w/c British person.

 

[Macabre]

Lying toerag.

Not only are you a conservative imperialist public school boy you are, suprise suprise a filthy liar to boot!

Sorry, everyone at the beginning that wasnt spam

I have called nobody a 'Thatcherite'.

I await an apology.

Well it is easy to get you and fishfingerer confused, your arguments for the last half of the thread have been nothing but abuse. I'll apologies once Ive recieved one for every time youve called me a cunt, fucker, etc.

I am not refusing to comment on these accusations I actually have a life other than this thread on some oddball bulletin board on t'interweb.

Firstly!

Child soldiers? Your paper says the maoist have some youths aged between 15 and 18 and also that the vast majority of these do not engage in combat.

'Child soldiers' do you realise that you can join the british army at age 16.

Do you accuse the british army of using child soldiers? Or does that one year make such a difference?

Apart from doubting you actually do have a life, you have had plenty of time to read the sources on a subject you feel so strongly about you feel the need to be so excessively abusive to anyone who has a different opinion to you. The only oddballs are the ones who for some reason think a drawn out civil war, that has reached a stalemate, in a very poor country is some how a good thing.

Yes, I realise a britsh lad can join at 16, he is hardly going to be in the same position as the Maoists kids though is he? I think the age in the UK is stupid tooand since when was drawning a comparison with another country make something justified? Because another corrupt, exploitative government does it that way doesnt make it ok.

If you would look a little further at the references I have given you will find paper written by two female anthropologists detailing the justice that women can only get through the maoists.

I don't have the book with me but I will return with facts and figures.

The book clearly states that the VDCs don't give a flying fuck about women and most of them, yes most, think domestic violence is acceptable. Where maoists have control women have access to protection and justice.

This is a very well researched and referenced paper and the writers have gone to great lengths to get their infomation, which is a lot more than can be said for your very political reports you have googled up.

Please do post from these fabled, out of date sources. On the surface the Maoists preach caste and gender equality and Im sure there are examples of justice being carried out, but these acts appear to be few and far between. Preaching equality when the woman are still systematically raped and used as cannon fodder is hardly justified in exchange for a principal which appears to be rhetoric for most. It doesnt matter how or where I got the sources, probably the same way you did, the point is the're there. They are well written, even handed, independant, up to date and relevant sources.

 

[Jessiedog]

Really DUAF and fishfinger.

You're both looking more than a little daft now.

So many credible, well-referenced, recent, detailed, long term studies have been directly linked to this thread.

Anyone clicking on them can immediately read and assess the methodology of the studies, the veracity of the sources and the solidity of the conclusions.

You've linked to a few pro-Maoist, "parachute-in", journalists, some ideologues, pretenders and apologists and a couple of half hearted, out of date papers. Most of the sources you cited (unless really tainted), and all the academic ones, upon deeper reading, are scathing about the Maoists.

But most of the time you claim knowledge, cite books without being able to show any properly conducted studies, produce links to the amazon bookseller's website and wibble, wibble, wibble, wibble, wibble when asked to produce ANY credible refutation of the multiple DIRECTLY LINKED sources provided on this thread.

Why don't you both just directly link to some properly dated, referenced, credible sources so that we can all just easily click on the links and be taken DIRECTLY to the works and be able to evaluate them, without having to search for yonks around the WWW, only to eventually find out that it's a load of outdated, discredited wank?



Honestly, you're both beginning to give Jazzz a run for his money with respect to dodgy sources and are seemingly just as blinded by ideology.

I'm all for working people and peasants.

Just not these particular (supposedly "Maoist") butchers.



Woof

 

[DrRingDing]

I'm all for working people and peasants.

Of course you are! Who else is going is going to make you rich?

So you say you live in China and you're not a foreigner!?

Surely I've seen a pic of you and you are white, middle aged with floppy blonde hair. I maybe wrong, but that doesn't sound very indiginous to me!

So pray tell how do you class yourself as Chinese?

 

[DrRingDing]

The only people I have met that are imperialists are either over 70 or have attended public school.

Macabre which is it for you?

Pensioner or public school boy?

 

[revol68]

fuck man do your arguments get any fucking worse.

I would be willing to bet your not exactly a horny hand son of the soil.

 

[DrRingDing]

I would be willing to bet your not exactly a horny hand son of the soil.

Well it's funny you should mention that I work as a farm labourer for donkeys.

 

[DrRingDing]

Well it's funny you should mention that I work as a farm labourer for donkeys.

Although we had John Deers rather than oxen to be fair.

 

[Jessiedog]

Still no sources?

What a surprise!

Of course you are! Who else is going is going to make you rich?

So you say you live in China and you're not a foreigner!?

Surely I've seen a pic of you and you are white, middle aged with floppy blonde hair. I maybe wrong, but that doesn't sound very indiginous to me!

So pray tell how do you class yourself as a Chinese?

Good grief!

You seem to have some deep misconception of me.

"Floppy blond hair" indeed?

COMPLETE BOLLOCKS!!!

You must have grasped the wrong end of the stick here, I fear.

Rich?

ME?

Fuck off!


Oh well.







Nevertheless DUAF, before you go any further....this is getting very personal and nasty - and not from my end.

And as I've said, that's not what I want.

I was happy to debate the issues, but frankly, the idea that you would stoop so low as to go out of your way to try and find out my real identity and try and "out" me - no matter how misguided such attempts may be - speaks volumes.



Please drop it.

Don't do this DUAF, please.

I didn't think you'd go this far.

I have responsiblilities - many people depend upon me.



Do you know where I live and travel? What I do? What I stand for, DUAF? Or the fucking half of what I'm involved in?

No. You don't.

I don't want ANYONE here disclosing anything about me at any time.

And before you start twittering about this info being freely available.

Read the fucking FAQ!

(Someone report this tit! )


So, now, I bow (wow) out of this debate (and I'm going to have second thoughts about being so freely spoken on Urban after this quite frankly, if this is how long term board members are going to be treated).

It is not in my best interests to continue, given that any further attempts by DUAF to go down this line may have repercussions for myself and my family/friends/associates.


Thanks for that DUAF.

Please drop it.


The best to you and yours DOUF.

But please, NOTHING else personal.






Woof

 

[Macabre]

The only people I have met that are imperialists are either over 70 or have attended public school.

Macabre which is it for you?

Pensioner or public school boy?

Im both please show me anywhere on any thread where I have ever supported any monarchy? Not that I care what someone who thinks an brutal, oppressive regime that casts a few scraps of justice to the poor while fucking them (much like an imperial regime) thinks. Unlike you, im here to learn about the politics of Nepal rather than spout tired bollocks about hyporcitial revolutionary politics. Nowhere on this thread has your contribution gone beyond Im-a-more-hard-core-lefty-than-thou, willy-waving, keyboard-warrior bullshit or personal abuse with no justification for dishing it out. All you've done is push people out of this thread would like to learn more about Nepal and are dead set on doing the same on the other thread.

 

[kasheem]

How altruistic of you. Nothing like throwing a few shekels about to assuage one's useless liberal guilt.

I see that hateful Anti-Jewish bigotry is still alive and doing very well on this particular part of the forum...

Macabre, jessiedog, don't let yourselves be intimidated by these lunatics. They outnumber us in political threads and use despicable tactics to win their arguments... but you are not alone. There are normal decent non-communist people here. They can't shut us up if we don't want to be shut up.

 

[kasheem]

Surely I've seen a pic of you and you are white, middle aged with floppy blonde hair. I maybe wrong, but that doesn't sound very indiginous to me!

More racial abuse. Just happens to be the right type that their fellow cyber-buddy lefties are OK with. And these braindead maggots over six months I've been here have been insinuating that I'm from the BNP. I have never met a member a BNP in my life actually never joined any political party, organisation or movement. Never said a racial slur past primary-school age, never been deliberately racist against somebody, and never started a fight.

So why do they call me a bad person? They don't know any of that, there aren't any grounds for it. They hate me because of the (pretty much mainstream anywhere else) views I express, and most of all that I refuse to follow their orders to be silent.

I know who the 'bad people' on this forum are... And it doesn't come from ideology, political views or anything else. It comes from your attitude and behaviour towards strangers.

 

[revol68]

I see that hateful Anti-Jewish bigotry is still alive and doing very well on this particular part of the forum...

Macabre, jessiedog, don't let yourselves be intimidated by these lunatics. They outnumber us in political threads and use despicable tactics to win their arguments... but you are not alone. There are normal decent non-communist people here. They can't shut us up if we don't want to be shut up.

stfu and stop trying to brown nose you sad fuck. I'm a libertarian communist myself, and it's for that reason i don't support the fuckng maoists.

And what the fuck is a normal non communist person?

 

[In Bloom]

So have the Maoists killed any more peasants yet?

*fap fap fap*

 

[Tatiana]

*Budda budda budda, rata tat tat*

 

[888]

Thought I'd stick this quote I came across as it perhaps makes quite a lot of sense in Nepal just as in Vietnam in the 70s despite fairly different situations:

“To choose sides in Vietnam is to place oneself in the tutelage of one or another bureaucratic system....The Vietnamese peasant who revolts against his feudal and foreign masters has no alternative but to support the National Liberation Front (NLF) which is controlled by the Communist Party....At this stage, revolutionaries IN VIETNAM probably have little alternative but to be involved with the NLF and participate in the military struggle against the American forces. One cannot be ‘neutral’ while aircraft are flying over one’s head, dropping bombs.” (p. 15-16).

Then he added, “For us, IN BRITAIN, the situation is quite different. We are not militarily involved in the struggle. There is no necessity whatsoever for us to align ourselves with any bureaucracy. We do a positive disservice to the cause of socialism if we participate in the general mystification concerning the class nature of the Russian, Chinese, or North Vietnamese regimes. Revolutionary socialists should clearly and constantly propagate their conception that socialism means the political, organizational, and ideological autonomy of the working class.” (p. 16)

 

[DrRingDing]

Still no sources?

What a surprise!








Good grief!

You seem to have some deep misconception of me.

"Floppy blond hair" indeed?

COMPLETE BOLLOCKS!!!

You must have grasped the wrong end of the stick here, I fear.

Rich?

ME?

Fuck off!


Oh well.







Nevertheless DUAF, before you go any further....this is getting very personal and nasty - and not from my end.

And as I've said, that's not what I want.

I was happy to debate the issues, but frankly, the idea that you would stoop so low as to go out of your way to try and find out my real identity and try and "out" me - no matter how misguided such attempts may be - speaks volumes.



Please drop it.

Don't do this DUAF, please.

I didn't think you'd go this far.

I have responsiblilities - many people depend upon me.



Do you know where I live and travel? What I do? What I stand for, DUAF? Or the fucking half of what I'm involved in?

No. You don't.

I don't want ANYONE here disclosing anything about me at any time.

And before you start twittering about this info being freely available.

Read the fucking FAQ!

(Someone report this tit! )


So, now, I bow (wow) out of this debate (and I'm going to have second thoughts about being so freely spoken on Urban after this quite frankly, if this is how long term board members are going to be treated).

It is not in my best interests to continue, given that any further attempts by DUAF to go down this line may have repercussions for myself and my family/friends/associates.


Thanks for that DUAF.

Please drop it.


The best to you and yours DOUF.

But please, NOTHING else personal.






Woof

LOL!

You really are being a self righteous tit.

You claim that you are an infalable expert on Nepal because you live over a thousand miles from the country.

You claim you are not a foreigner in China and yet you are a a white man.

I strongly believe you and Macabre are merely defending your class on this thread.

If you wish to use your experience in China as a reason why you should be the guru of all things Nepali you should be at least be willing to highlight why, otherwise step off your throne.

 

[Jessiedog]

*has already withdrawn*

But.............


NO PERSONAL STUFF!!!!!!!!!!!!


Read the links please peeps, don't rely on the off topic wibble here.


NOTHING PERSONAL PLEASE DUAF.

PLEASE!!!!


*re-withdraws*




Woof

 

[Jessiedog]

Please.

Woof

 

[Macabre]

LOL!

You really are being a self righteous tit.

You claim that you are an infalable expert on Nepal because you live over a thousand miles from the country.

You claim you are not a foreigner in China and yet you are a a white man.

I strongly believe you and Macabre are merely defending your class on this thread.

If you wish to use your experience in China as a reason why you should be the guru of all things Nepali you should be at least be willing to highlight why, otherwise step off your throne.

Were has JD said he's an experts on Nepal? Or me for that matter? We've sourced many experts on the situation in Nepal but never claimed we where experts, your the only one who seems to think his stance is absolute on the issue. Even fishfingerer has backed down. Your arrguements are nothing but personal attacks on me and JD with information and judgements about us you've pulled from your ass. Untill you produce an easily accessed source that some how justify the brutality and hypocracy, well documented in our sources that you lamely attempt to disgard, of the Maoist movement in Nepal you've lost.