Claim of responsibility 'contains errors'

[editor]

Plenty more enjoyable things to be doing where you're not attacked for saying the wrong thing.

Great.
Bye!

 

[fela fan]

Great.
Bye!

Bye.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

fela popping in to repeat his usual content-free whinge, I see - how immensely surprising

 

[editor]

Bye.

Woohoo!

Another flounce from fela "rubber band" fan!

 

[fela fan]

fela popping in to repeat his usual content-free whinge, I see - how immensely surprising

Good to hear that i conform to expectations. I must be doing something right then.

How can a bunch of writing be content-free?

 

[editor]

Good to hear that i conform to expectations. I must be doing something right then.

How can a bunch of writing be content-free?

Back so soon?

Yep. You're definitely conforming to expectations, maaaaaaaaaaaan.

 

[laptop]

How can a bunch of writing be content-free?

You mean you find content in Blair's answers at Question Time?

You're more paranoid than I thought.

Byeeee!

 

[fela fan]

Back so soon?

Yep. You're definitely conforming to expectations, maaaaaaaaaaaan.

I only said bye to you. And bye it is, now that i've clarified for you your misunderstanding.

 

[editor]

I thought you had "Plenty more enjoyable things to be doing"?

 

[gurrier]

That was a good post raisin, with lots of prescient points in it.

It's not unique to urban though, it pretty much works like that in all spheres of british life where a power inequality occurs. Perhaps in many other countries too.

Free speech exists in britain for sure, but only within certain parameters. By defining underground media as a vehicle for voices to speak outside of these parameters, we can then know if we are reading mainstream media.

It's cheap and easy to set up a bulletin board nowadays. Since Urban has clearly been lost to the mainstream*, I expect that you will be soon establishing a real 'underground media' where you can speak outside of these certain parameters and have real free speech. Actually, I don't expect that at all. Doing practical things like running bulletin boards requires a certain connection with reality (I can just imagine the mods and posters engaging in constant purges against each other for being 'one of them' )

Urban p and p in my wee opinion is leaving one and becoming the other. But i stick around hoping it can get back to what it was a couple of years ago.

It sounds like a frightening place 2 years ago As it stands the delusional fraction produce a massively disproportionate amount of the words here.

* For example, as we all know well, mainstream media tends to concentrate hugely on the shenanigans of the far left when it comes to politics. In fact it's hard to differentiate Urban 75 from the BBC or Fox news politically

 

[Raisin D'etre]

Indeedy.

But there is a grammar of thinking that leads to learning - the acquisition of knowledge, which as you will recall can be defined as "true, justified belief".

Without that the best you get is noise - word salad - and the worst is deeply offensive.

And the definining feature of people who speculate about conspiracies is that they just don't get that there is such a grammar.



"Lizard millenium sprat and buggery and they're all out to get me them dirty Xxxx eschatology parsnip."

In the end it's all going to be noise and regurgitations of those "word salads" you refer to when dialogue is reduced to a win-lose situation.

To win participants will resort to name-calling and misrepresentation of arguments to name but a few tried and tested methods. Any preceding dialogue that showed promise of opening up new avenues of understanding is closed down, usually following an intervention where a contentious view is described as conspiralooning and "Lizard millenium sprat and buggery and they're all out to get me them dirty Xxxx eschatology parsnip"... just another way of referring to truths that must never be spoken.

Yet, it was the corporately controlled media that sold the WMD lies that led to the invasion of Iraq in which 100,000 Iraqis have died and it is the CCM that have never dared question the use of deadly munitions like Depleted Uranium in Iraq, and who ignored the assault on Fallujah and other cities.

You write as if there is a correct way to approach truth through some special language (something only the cognoscenti like yourself have access to) - it's those top-down control systems I so detest because I think we are all equal, no matter how often some might bleat "Two Legs Good. Four Legs Bad."

Curiousity and doubt are all that is needed. But what is assumed here is that we as consumers of the mass media must swallow without chewing, the most absurd explanations for events that unfold seemingly for no other reason than a few mad Arabs hate our freedoms - everything else is Lizardism and conspiralooning.

Lizardism as described by Icke is really symptomatic of the dystopia we are living in. Icke describes a breed of Alien/human/reptilian hybrids that cruelly rule over the sheeple, sacrificing and coldly using them for their own ends. Look at it as a metaphor that allows us to view at some distance accepted norms of human behaviour such as fascism, militarism, imperialism, capitalism and other evils which man has inflicted on man. It works like the mythological stories humans have invented to describe the condition in which we find ourselves. To dismiss it as spun reality misses the point completely. Do people really take it literally? I don't think so.

 

[editor]

To win participants will resort to name-calling and misrepresentation of arguments to name but a few tried and tested methods.

You're talking about yourself here, right?

 

[Raisin D'etre]

You're talking about yourself here, right?

Could you check these keys on your keyboard C O N S P I R A L because I fear you might need to replace it through over use. I avoid ad hominems as I don't believe I need to win arguments through name-calling.

 

[laptop]

Curiousity and doubt are all that is needed.

Not all, at all.

Curiosity, plus what for shorthand I referred to as a "grammar" of discussion and evidence evaluation, that'd encompass effective understandings of basic logic, cause and effect, probability... those things that all members of the community of rational discourse share.

It is revealing that you should label "doubt" as essential. Curiosity as to what did happen would cover it.

But assuming determination to construct a different narrative as a starting-point: that's paranoia in a nutshell.

 

[Raisin D'etre]

Not all, at all.

Curiosity, plus what for shorthand I referred to as a "grammar" of discussion and evidence evaluation, that'd encompass effective understandings of basic logic, cause and effect, probability... those things that all members of the community of rational discourse share.

It is revealing that you should label "doubt" as essential. Curiosity as to what did happen would cover it.

But assuming determination to construct a different narrative as a starting-point: that's paranoia in a nutshell.

You're just playing word games to reach your own end - which you had already described as "Lizard millenium sprat and buggery and they're all out to get me them dirty Xxxx eschatology parsnip." In other words you were reaching for the word "paranoia" before you put up this post. I am asking you to consider the process of dialogue. I see you offer no comment on my Icke comments.

 

[Raisin D'etre]

Not all, at all.

It is revealing that you should label "doubt" as essential. Curiosity as to what did happen would cover it.

However, point taken - doubt/curiosity are more or less the same. I could argue that this was not so and give my reasons why if I were interested in continuing with the win-lose situation. You get your point.

 

[Loki]

Lizardism as described by Icke is really symptomatic of the dystopia we are living in. Icke describes a breed of Alien/human/reptilian hybrids that cruelly rule over the sheeple, eating them and coldly using them for their own ends. Look at it as a metaphor that allows us to view at some distance accepted norms of human behaviour such as fascism, militarism, imperialism, capitalism and other evils which man has inflicted on man. It works like the mythological stories humans have invented to describe the condition in which we find ourselves. To dismiss it as spun reality misses the point completely. Do people really take it literally? I don't think so.

No, Icke really does believe in this lizard stuff in the literal sense, see here for example. And the fact that you take someone like Icke seriously speaks volumes.

 

[laptop]

You're just playing word games to reach your own end -

I am making an honest attempt - mostly for the benefit of others reading this thread, I fear - to describe what it takes to join the community of rational discourse.

And I don't have a time to write a sequel or an answer either to the Wittgenstein of the Investigations or the Wittgenstein of the Brown Book.

which you had already described as "Lizard millenium sprat and buggery and they're all out to get me them dirty Xxxx eschatology parsnip." In other words you were reaching for the word "paranoia" before you put up this post.

It was a joke and an example of word salad.

I am asking you to consider the process of dialogue.

That's precisely what I am doing.

And exploring the nature of paranoia, including the features that it is a withdrawal from dialogue, a retreat from the hard work of finding truths together and the most narcissistic state imaginable.

I see you offer no comment on my Icke comments.

Why would I? To claim it as a metaphor is frankly silly. Does Icke see it as a metaphor? No, he's definitively left the community of rational discourse - or, for short, he's barking.

 

[Raisin D'etre]

I am making an honest attempt - mostly for the benefit of others reading this thread, I fear - to describe what it takes to join the community of rational discourse.

And I don't have a time to write a sequel or an answer either to the Wittgenstein of the Investigations or the Wittgenstein of the Brown Book.



It was a joke and an example of word salad.



That's precisely what I am doing.

And exploring the nature of paranoia, including the features that it is a withdrawal from dialogue, a retreat from the hard work of finding truths together and the most narcissistic state imaginable.



Why would I? To claim it as a metaphor is frankly silly. Does Icke see it as a metaphor? No, he's definitively left the community of rational discourse - or, for short, he's barking.

You need to consider that Icke has made a very good living out of writing these books and buying into the very system that he critiques. There is more going on here than you are prepared to consider because ... you have decided he is barking. Did people say the same of people like Homer who invented stories to awaken humanity? Living in your factoid world Icke might appear to be barking, is that what the media tell you while Icke's minting it? In my opinion PK is closer to the truth.

 

[Raisin D'etre]

It was a joke and an example of word salad.

OK. Got it!

 

[Loki]

You need to consider that Icke has made a very good living out of writing these books and buying into the very system that he critiques. There is more going on here than you are prepared to consider because ... you have decided he is barking. Did people say the same of people like Homer who invented stories to awaken humanity? Living in your factoid world Icke might appear to be barking, is that what the media tell you while Icke's minting it? In my opinion PK is closer to the truth.

He sells a lot of books because there's people like you out there to buy them. Lots of conspiranoid sites are flogging books. Does that make their theories any more credible?

 

[laptop]

There is more going on here than you are prepared to consider because ...

How do you know there's "more going on" or is it your starting assumption with everything?

When people are find truths together, frequently a good pointer that we're on the right track is that there's less going on than was suspected.

But you're utterly ignoring the interesting bits of what I've written. Is it perhaps that you're one of those people who just don't get the ideas of discussion, of rationality and of finding truths together?

 

[fela fan]

It's cheap and easy to set up a bulletin board nowadays. Since Urban has clearly been lost to the mainstream*, I expect that you will be soon establishing a real 'underground media' where you can speak outside of these certain parameters and have real free speech. Actually, I don't expect that at all.

Well, make your mind up, which is it to be?

Of course i'd never set up a bulletin board, who the fuck do you think i am? You have mistaken me for someone who gives a toss. I don't. You can all wallow in your own shit for all i care. I'm just spouting my mouth off on this bulletin board, just like you mate, just like everyone else.

Essentially urban is nothing, it changes nothing. It is a place for hot air, just like the tv studios, the houses of parliament, and the pub.

 

[Raisin D'etre]

How do you know there's "more going on" or is it your starting assumption with everything?

When people are find truths together, frequently a good pointer that we're on the right track is that there's less going on than was suspected.

But you're utterly ignoring the interesting bits of what I've written. Is it perhaps that you're one of those people who just don't get the ideas of discussion, of rationality and of finding truths together?

To your last question... No. I am still considering them. OK?

In the meantime, I see you choose to avoid engaging with Icke as a latter day Homer.

A few weekends ago I spent my time in the company of a master story-teller who broke the bounds of reality and I and others were constantly trying to bring him back to what we knew as truth but he didn't care for our truth boundaries. He had a point to make.

 

[Yossarian]

You need to consider that Icke has made a very good living out of writing these books and buying into the very system that he critiques. Did people say the same of people like Homer who invented stories to awaken humanity?

You're comparing David Icke to Homer? Homer out of the Simpsons is a genius compared to Icke followers.

What the fuck is it that makes people believe in all that shite?

 

[Yossarian]

A few weekends ago I spent my time in the company of a master story-teller who broke the bounds of reality and I and others were constantly trying to bring him back to what we knew as truth but he didn't care for our truth boundaries. He had a point to make.

If this is parody, congratulations on a job very well done.

If not, I suggest you stock up on mushrooms while they're legal so you can put off the day that all that stops making sense for that little bit longer....

 

[Raisin D'etre]

You're comparing David Icke to Homer? Homer out of the Simpsons is a genius compared to Icke followers.

What the fuck is it that makes people believe in all that shite?

You didn't get it did you? Icke as master story-teller creates the Alien/Human/Reptilian hybrid myth that is out to kill, maim, destroy humanity and the animal kingdom. "They" are part us, part animal, part corporate. Sacrificing humans and animals and the environment. Responsible for genocidal killings and so on.

 

[Raisin D'etre]

And my final point for tonight is that if such story tellers were given free reign in the media - how different our conception of reality was. Think Orson Welles and War of the Worlds.

 

[Yossarian]

You didn't get it did you? Icke as master story-teller creates the Alien/Human/Reptilian hybrid myth that is out to kill, maim, destroy humanity and the animal kingdom. "They" are part us, part animal, part corporate. Sacrificing humans and animals and the environment. Responsible for genocidal killings and so on.

One man's "master story-teller" is another man's "fucked-in-the-head twat who babbles about lizards" - but I suppose it'd get dull if we all agreed on everything...

 

[pk]

Master story-teller my arse.

He was a shit sports pundit back in the day, and then he had a nervous breakdown, and the fact that people actually buy into what are plainly his paranoid delusions says more about them than him.

Icke may be mentally ill but as long as there are conspiranoids willing to hand over cash for his "master story telling" he'll be in no rush to get cured.

Hell, he's probably better already, just riding out the lizard bandwagon until his publishers won't advance him any more money.

Conspiranoids/Scientologists - what's the fucking difference, they're all gullible twats...