WouldBe
Dislicksick
Jazzz said:Good, perfectly clear, so what on earth were you pulling me up for in your post #200?
It read (to me) that me being ex-army I was 'closing ranks' with the police.
Jazzz said:Good, perfectly clear, so what on earth were you pulling me up for in your post #200?
If you honestly believed that he was about to shoot you and / or someone else and / or use the gun in the commission of some form of attack, you should have been court martialled and banged up in Colchester Prison for not shooting him.WouldBe said:While on guard duty I've had a nutter walking round the outside of the perimeter fence visibly armed with a gun. Had I shot him even once I would have been court martialled and banged up in Colchester prison.
There is NO excuse for what those police officers did.
It's extremely relevant. Unless I am mistaken, no-one has suggested that De Menezes did ANYTHING AT ALL to suggest he was about to detonate a bomb. That's the point. That's why that EVEN IF he was a terrorist this constitutes an execution. You can't just kill suspected terrorists because they are travelling on the tube. Other points - he could have been intercepted before getting on the tube - this wasn't done: and even if he had planted a bomb previously (wasn't it hair gel and flour?) that doesn't make him a 'suicide' bomber. It's utterly indefensible DB. But hey, they all got let off, that's good enough for you!detective-boy said:The officers involved have provided an account of what they did and why they did it which has satisfied the IPCC and the CPS that they had reasonable grounds to suspect that he was a suicide bomber about to detonate a bomb. Whether any or all of those grounds came from anything the man himself did (as opposed to any of the other surrounding circumstances) is irrelevant.
detective-boy said:they have concluded that there is insufficient evidence to proceed further i.e. the law has reached it's full extent in this case, in the absence of new information.
You are. Go read the CPS explanation for their decision.Jazzz said:Unless I am mistaken
No. Go read a law book.WouldBe said:Hmmm. 1 dead body, at least 1 smoking gun, gunpowder residue and blood splatters on a policeman and that's NOT sufficient evidence?
But it would be good enough to prosecute a member of the public.detective-boy said:No. Go read a law book.
(You can read, can't you?)
Jazzz said:...... in fact I only just saw it ........
I suggest I am not. You show me where I am wrong. You appear to be saying that they were let off = they were innocent, an extremely naive state of affairs, and it is absolutely beyond your faith in authority to consider that such a decision could have been influenced by political motives.detective-boy said:You are. Go read the CPS explanation for their decision.
No. It wouldn't.WouldBe said:But it would be good enough to prosecute a member of the public.
You are wrong in law. Go read a law book on the law of self-defence.Jazzz said:You show me where I am wrong. You appear to be saying that they were let off = they were innocent, an extremely naive state of affairs, and it is absolutely beyond your faith in authority to consider that such a decision could have been influenced by political motives.
Oh fuck off with your "trigger-happy" bollocks. The statistics show that the police in the Uk are anything but fucking trigger-happy. As has been demonstrated repeatedly on these fucking boards.Yossarian said:Detective-boy’s belligerent defence of those trigger-happy bastards in the Met has resulted in something I wouldn’t have thought possible on this thread – I’m starting to agree with everything Jazzz is saying!
detective-boy said:As has been demonstrated repeatedly on these fucking boards.
If you actually read them, instead of assuming what they contain, you would find that I:Yossarian said:I only skim-read your posts at best, I think your starry-eyed horseshit about what wonderful people the Met are is nauseating , although you are becoming more amusing now that you’ve apparently come down with SAD…
detective-boy said:Oh fuck off with your "trigger-happy" bollocks. The statistics show that the police in the Uk are anything but fucking trigger-happy. As has been demonstrated repeatedly on these fucking boards.
Welcome to Twatville.
"you fucking moron"
"it wouldn't you fucking idiot"
"Twat."
"You don't mean that though, do you, cunt?"
detective-boy said:(you do believe in the principle of innocent until proven guilty, I take it, even though you are clearly not willing to apply it here because, presumably pigs don't deserve it)
Oh I see... have another read of the post that irked you, only this time add a comma after 'indefensible' in the first sentenceWouldBe said:It read (to me) that me being ex-army I was 'closing ranks' with the police.
Me too.Jazzz said:I think all sides should ease off the personal abuse.
Taking this bollocks in order:Jazzz said:A prosecution didn't occur therefore there was no crime! God knows how many cases we can extend that line of reasoning to - we could start with the Acourt gang. You've come up with nothing to suggest that De Menezes acted in any way like he was about to detonate himself. The debate has centred around the mistaking of identity, which is utterly atrocious, yet if we even overlook that it's not enough - as I said - you can't simply execute suspected terrorists because they are travelling on the tube. You are saying that you can! Even MOSSAD were driven to say they would have done nothing like this.
aah, but you're forgetting Jazzz is a Mossad employee....detective-boy said:7. MOSSAD have said a lot (it was the Israeli Defence Force actually but I know accuracy is a concept entirely alien to you). But look at their track record. No dead peace workers and children in Palestine there then - clearly they were really all genuine terrorists. IT must be true because Jazzz says that MOSSAD have assured him that Jean Charles de Menezes would never have died if they were carrying out the operaton. Absolute fucking bollocks, from them and from you. If the Israelis were carrying out the operation they'd probably have mortared the fucking flats in Tulse Hill ...
I want to know if he gets invites to the company picnic or not.belboid said:aah, but you're forgetting Jazzz is a Mossad employee....
detective-boy said:God help us that we used to give someone with such limited understanding of the law a fucking gun.
detective-boy said:7. MOSSAD have said a lot (it was the Israeli Defence Force actually but I know accuracy is a concept entirely alien to you). But look at their track record. No dead peace workers and children in Palestine there then - clearly they were really all genuine terrorists. IT must be true because Jazzz says that MOSSAD have assured him that Jean Charles de Menezes would never have died if they were carrying out the operaton. Absolute fucking bollocks, from them and from you. If the Israelis were carrying out the operation they'd probably have mortared the fucking flats in Tulse Hill ...
GuardianThere may be another possible reason why De Menezes was killed, despite the fact he was not seen to be carrying or wearing a bomb. I asked Chief Inspector Martin Rush, who runs the Met's firearms training centre at Gravesend, whether his officers actually have to see a suicide jacket, or what they think may be a suicide jacket, before they open fire. "No," he replied.
This is not the case in Israel, where suicide bombers have been a fact of life for years. I put the same question to Major General Mickey Levy, the police commander in Jerusalem from 2000 to 2004, who dealt with 42 suicide bombers in his time. He said his officers had to be sure they could see a suicide vest or explosives before they opened fire. In the vast majority of cases, he says, the suspects they confronted were indeed suicide bombers because the intelligence built up over so many years was so good. The Israelis stop roughly nine out of 10 suicide bombers before they can detonate their payloads.
My contention is that the killing of De Menezes was, in effect, an execution for being a suspected terrorist. That is where we disagree. We both agree the police cannot execute people; you are twisting the meaning here.detective-boy said:6. I am not saying you can execute people, you liar. Find me a post where I say that, or even one where your twisted logic can imply I am saying that or withdraw it.
I haven't ...Jazzz said:You haven't added anything new whatsoever.