Citizenship: people, rights and other people's rights...

[kebabking]

A discussion thread - my own views are far from fully formed...

What does citizenship mean? Is it a purely legal status that simply relates to an individual and the state, is it membership of a society within which the state is simply one actor?

Is it akin to family membership - with all the pitfalls and nuances of that esteemed polity?

Are there responsibilities to others that come with citizenship - if you don't meet them, does the citizenship end?

Views?

 

[mojo pixy]

We aren't 'citizens' in the UK, we're subjects of the Crown. This colours my view of any responsibilities towards this country that I may have. I keep the laws, where possible. That's where I consider my duty towards the UK begins and ends.

 

[Chilli.s]

We aren't 'citizens' in the UK, we're subjects of the Crown. This colours my view of any responsibilities towards this country that I may have. I keep the laws, where possible. That's where I consider my duty towards the UK begins and ends.

Sums up my feelings too. I dont feel included, I dont see balance and fairness, laws are imposed on some but not all. I keep my head down and get through. Mustnt get down about it though, loads of good things

 

[MickiQ]

A discussion thread - my own views are far from fully formed...

What does citizenship mean? Is it a purely legal status that simply relates to an individual and the state, is it membership of a society within which the state is simply one actor?

The lack of a written constitution makes legally defining citizenship in this country a bit woolly but definitely exists since I have a snazzy looking little booklet that says I am one. citizenship as opposed to being a good citizen/member of society is a legal(ish) definition as opposed to a personal moral choice.
The state doesn't expect me to behave in the ways it wants it forces me under pain of sanction to do so but largely lets me do what I want otherwise.

Is it akin to family membership - with all the pitfalls and nuances of that esteemed polity?

No, whilst I appreciate that as countries go this is one of the better ones to live, I have a loyalty to blood that runs deeper than anything else be it nationality, class, ethnicity whatever.

Are there responsibilities to others that come with citizenship - if you don't meet them, does the citizenship end?

Views?

The Govt doesn't ask me to pay my taxes and trust my sense of fairness and decency to give generously, they just confiscate it off me. Same for not committing crimes, it doesn't really rely on me being a decent chap, it uses the threat of punishment to deter such behaviour. I can see the point of both of these, agree they're necessary and don't object but it is forced on me without consent.

All the above aside though I realise that being a British citizen is actually something of a privilege to be added to the quite long list of privileges I have acquired mostly through just being born. I've never been dragged off a plane or slung in pokey for just presenting my passport. I was quite shocked when it was stamped on our visit to Geneva a few weeks ago.

 

[JimW]

I'm a Freeman on the Land. Keeps the Jehovah's Witnesses away.

 

[chilango]

"I am a citizen of the world"
- Diogenes of Sinope (c.330 bce)

Two thousand years on, that's still the wisest take on this question.

 

[ska invita]

bring back military service, obvs.

 

[Idris2002]

"I am a citizen of the world"
- Diogenes of Sinope (c.330 bce)

Two thousand years on, that's still the wisest take on this question.

Major Strasser: What is your nationality?

Rick: I'm a drunkard.

Captain Renault: That makes Rick a citizen of the world.

Anyway - citizenship. One of those things that every knows about but no one is quite sure means what they think it means. In Rome, being a citizen meant you weren't a slave: it put you on one side of a sharp divide. Today, everyone's meant to be a citizen of somewhere, but the divides can still be sharp, even if they're not always as obvious as they under SPQR.

 

[Idris2002]

bring back military service, obvs.

Well, yes, that goes without saying.

 

[ska invita]

its a two way street, a social contract even
currently we are serfs in a neofeudal system not citizens
compulsory citizen classes for everyone in the highest tax bracket alongside outlawing of all tax dodges would be a good start to revitalising the notion of citizenship

 

[Flavour]

There is often a difference at the legal level between the State's obligations towards citizens and the citizen's obligations towards the State. By that I mean, people who don't enjoy all the benefits of full citizenship of a country are still subject to the same obligations that full citizens would be.

For example, resident non-citizens are expected to pay taxes, but are not allowed to vote.

 

[Serge Forward]

bring back military service, obvs.

And the birch

 

[Orang Utan]

It’s mad that immigrants who wish to become citizens of the UK have to demonstrate more knowledge of and commitment to the state, legislature and monarchy than native Britons are expected to. Why should a republican immigrant not be allowed to become a UK citizen?

 

[DotCommunist]

bring back military service, obvs.

 

[NoXion]

We aren't 'citizens' in the UK, we're subjects of the Crown.

This might not be my biggest reason for why the monarchy should abolished, but it's certainly up there. That kind of rancid, archaic servility built into the structures and institutions of this country needs to torn out and thrown on the pyre of history, the sooner the better.

Then we might be citizens.