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Charlotte Dujardin not competing in dressage after whipping video emerges

tardigrade said:
I see you're trying to get a rise out of someone. Your other posts didn't get the reaction you wanted, and neither will this one, because you're just here for your own amusement.
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All of the sensible stuff is being said by Epona.

As you suggest, I’m just watching for the fun of it and will chip in the odd pearls of wisdom at my leisure, in order to educate, chastise, or frustrate 😜
 
Had a very interesting conversation with my equine physio colleague about this video and dressage in general.
Basically she says like any athlete, to be good at a particular sport you need certain physical characteristics - see basketball players being very tall, high jumpers having legs like a giraffe, gymnasts being small. Horses are the same - some are physically good for learning dressage and some aren't. The one in that video was physically incapable of doing what was being asked and no matter how much it got whipped it was never going to achieve that particular move at the standard required.

She also said that the problem with dressage is the scoring system which (a bit like dog breeding) awards points for weird anatomical variations and positions that few horses can achieve. Therefore the horses end up getting easily injured. It's like taking a young gymnast and forcing them into the splits.

She reckons there's going to be a lot of elite dressage trainers that are very worried at moment...
 
pbsmooth said:
You have conveniently forgotten you started banging on about 'animals being trained for human pleasure blah blah' before you realised that was bollocks and is the case for all domesticated pets for thousands of years.
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Get it right. This is what I said:

"However, the truth is horses are trained for the benefit of human pleasure, and and making money. Whether it be racing, show jumping, riding, hunting, whatever."

I said horses, because this is a thread about horses. Not that difficult.
 
tardigrade said:
Get it right. This is what I said:

"However, the truth is horses are trained for the benefit of human pleasure, and and making money. Whether it be racing, show jumping, riding, hunting, whatever."

I said horses, because this is a thread about horses. Not that difficult.
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yes, and horses have been "trained for the benefit of human pleasure, and and making money" for literally thousands of years. civilisations were built on the fact. so what's your point?
 
pbsmooth said:
You have conveniently forgotten you started banging on about 'animals being trained for human pleasure blah blah' before you realised that was bollocks and is the case for all domesticated pets for thousands of years.
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Dogs and cats came to live with humans willingly. There was always an element of quid pro quo up to relatively recently when humans started creating all kinds of stupid dog breeds.

But in any case, 'humans have been doing this for thousands of years' isn't a reason in and of itself to continue doing it. We can change and improve what we do and how we do it.
 
pbsmooth said:
yes, and horses have been "trained for the benefit of human pleasure, and and making money" for literally thousands of years. civilisations were built on the fact. so what's your point?
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Again there's a bit of a logic error here. Our current civilisation has been built through burning fossil fuels. Yet we have to stop doing that.
 
littlebabyjesus said:
Dogs and cats came to live with humans willingly. There was always an element of quid pro quo up to relatively recently when humans started creating all kinds of stupid dog breeds.

But in any case, 'humans have been doing this for thousands of years' isn't a reason in and of itself to continue doing it. We can change and improve what we do and how we do it.
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What proof do you have that early contact with horses was unwilling on their part?
 
It's all about food innit? Most wildlife will keep coming back if you offer food. That wildlife becomes comfortable around you and boom, before we know it a wild animal becomes domesticated.

Well maybe it takes a few hundred years to develop full domestication but food and it's supply is how we've ended up with pets.
 
Epona said:
What proof do you have that early contact with horses was unwilling on their part?
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Well, they began as prey animals if you look at the archaeological record, seems unlikely one drifted in to camp and stayed. Mind, remember watching a short film about the first time a Native American rode a horse and the bloke in that broke it in quite gently through persistence.
But then I've never even borrowed a burro, so no expert!
 
littlebabyjesus said:
Dogs and cats came to live with humans willingly. There was always an element of quid pro quo up to relatively recently when humans started creating all kinds of stupid dog breeds.

But in any case, 'humans have been doing this for thousands of years' isn't a reason in and of itself to continue doing it. We can change and improve what we do and how we do it.
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to be honest it was a broader point - the poster was deliberately antagonistic and trying to play clever dick with someone/others on the thread, while at the same time shuffling the goalposts and muddying the waters of the argument, which is exactly what they were claiming to take issue with.

but on this point, do I believe all 'training of animals for human benefit' should stop - no, I don't. of course I abhor any animal cruelty. but it's a misunderstanding of what's happening to suggest anyone who rides horses or trains a dog is participating in animal cruelty, which is the suggestion from the other poster.
 
JimW said:
Well, they began as prey animals if you look at the archaeological record, seems unlikely one drifted in to camp and stayed. Mind, remember watching a short film about the first time a Native American rode a horse and the bloke in that broke it in quite gently through persistence.
But then I've never even borrowed a burro, so no expert!
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Small cats that evolved into housecats were midway down the food chain - they were prey to larger predators.
 
Epona said:
Small cats that evolved into housecats were midway down the food chain - they were prey to larger predators.
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As I said up thread, my dad worked with horses and he was the real whisperer type so certainly don't think there's any need for cruelty. Few times I went along with him the horses he cared for would all come running across the paddock at the sight of his car pulling up in the lane.
 
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