Change UK: Chuka Umunna resigns from Labour party and launches Independent Group

[SpackleFrog]

It's all really weird why would he choose this hill to die on? No one else is even trying to offer up a defence like this I don't get it

To be fair, he'd already praised the #ScabbySeven as courageous brave and noble, so I assume he leapt to Smith's defence because he didn't want any reputational damage to his new political heroes.

It probably makes sense, Wookey things working class people are all racist but he's aware he needs some working class people to hate Corbyn for anti-Corbyn politcs to work without people thinking he's really a Tory.

 

[butchersapron]

Ooh chuka i did a racism.

Seeing as the seventies are back and all.

 

[Wookey]

You do understand that internalised, casual racism is still racism don't you?



Oh she fluffed her lines now did she? We are back to you pretending what she said isn't actually racist?

I am not missing anything and you are being a complete dick by accusing me of such. I can comment on this as much as I like and that doesn't mean I don't care about or take an interest in other things.

Oh and for the record, fuck off lecturing me about the serious effects of racism. You have a bloody nerve given you clearly don't actually understand what racism is and have repeatedly tried to wookey-splain it away on this thread.

Adds to the irony of these arseholes claiming to be anti-racist and you defending them in fact.

You've outed yourself as a complete arsehole with this.

I'm not defending them, I picked you up when you said they had used the word "coloured" which she didnt, and which has a great deal of baggage, and is not the same as saying tinge, funny or otherwise.

And I'm allowed an opinion on racism, do please wind your neck in, it's unseemly.

 

[butchersapron]

Neck-shaming now. Relentless.

 

[binka]

I'm not defending them, I picked you up when you said they had used the word "coloured" which she didnt, and which has a great deal of baggage, and is not the same as saying tinge, funny or otherwise.

And I'm allowed an opinion on racism, do please wind your neck in, it's unseemly.

White man explains racism to black woman. Great stuff

 

[tonysingh]

I'm not defending them, I picked you up when you said they had used the word "coloured" which she didnt, and which has a great deal of baggage, and is not the same as saying tinge, funny or otherwise.

And I'm allowed an opinion on racism, do please wind your neck in, it's unseemly.

Yes Rutita, how dare you argue back with Wookey?

 

[SpineyNorman]

To be fair, he'd already praised the #ScabbySeven as courageous brave and noble, so I assume he leapt to Smith's defence because he didn't want any reputational damage to his new political heroes.

It probably makes sense, Wookey things working class people are all racist but he's aware he needs some working class people to hate Corbyn for anti-Corbyn politcs to work without people thinking he's really a Tory.

Not all working class people, just the ferret in trousers and flat cap yorkshire ones.

 

[Sprocket.]

Wookey put the shovel back in the shed, the hole you’re digging isn’t helping you.

 

[danny la rouge]

I'm not defending them, I picked you up when you said they had used the word "coloured" which she didnt, and which has a great deal of baggage, and is not the same as saying tinge, funny or otherwise.

And I'm allowed an opinion on racism, do please wind your neck in, it's unseemly.

You’re really not helping yourself.

Here’s what you could be saying: “what a stupid thing for someone to say when they’re supposed to be setting up a new anti-racist grouping”.

 

[SpackleFrog]

Actually, I think that is it! Wookey are you defending Angela "Seven Shades of Racist" Smith precisely because you need some working class people to criticise Corbyn, but obviously that requires a certain level of pragmatism doesn't it? Because working class people are all racist. So you have to excuse the racism of the proles in order to build alliances against Corbyn and Brexit!

Makes complete sense now. Genius strategy!

Except Smith isn't that working class really. But apart from that

 

[Wookey]

Just so I'm sure I understand the world according to Wookey, you believe that we voted to leave the EU because the country is racist, and that the Labour Party is institutionally racist and anti-semitic, but you also think that all white working class people are 7 shades of racist, but you don't think she's a racist? Presumably because she's quite middle class and didn't mean to do a racism, she's just incompetent?

I'd be very surprised if she wasn't "racist". I am racist. I suspect you are racist. How can we not be racist? We are the product of a racist system. Let's grow PAST THAT BIT and admit and admire open self-awareness of inherited, pervasive, casual or institutional racism, look at our external manifestations of that racism and at ways to challenge that at every level. Pretending we aren't racist is precisely part of the problem.

You are sexist too, and almost certainly homophobic. Fucking own it. Then reject it.

 

[Sprocket.]

Not all working class people, just the ferret in trousers and flat cap yorkshire ones.

A ferret in trousers wearing a flat cap would go down a storm at club on satdy neet lad!

 

[SpackleFrog]

Not all working class people, just the ferret in trousers and flat cap yorkshire ones.

That is *all* working class people in his mind. The brown ones are probably subaltern or something.

 

[SpackleFrog]

I am racist.

We've gone fucking meta here. I thought I'd worked it out but now I'm totally confused.

 

[butchersapron]

Wookey put the shovel back in the shed, the hole you’re digging isn’t helping you.

Can't. If they lose this first battle then there will be no war.

This crass public demonstration of a racist mindset must be accepted by all as exemplary anti-racism. If this falls then all the other dominoes do too.

 

[butchersapron]

I'd be very surprised if she wasn't "racist". I am racist. I suspect you are racist. How can we not be racist? We are the product of a racist system. Let's grow PAST THAT BIT and admit and admire open self-awareness of inherited, pervasive, casual or institutional racism, look at our external manifestations of that racism and at ways to challenge that at every level. Pretending we aren't racist is precisely part of the problem.

You are sexist too, and almost certainly homophobic. Fucking own it. Then reject it.

He got to it finally, the flip.

 

[SpineyNorman]

I'd be very surprised if she wasn't "racist". I am racist. I suspect you are racist. How can we not be racist? We are the product of a racist system. Let's grow PAST THAT BIT and admit and admire open self-awareness of inherited, pervasive, casual or institutional racism, look at our external manifestations of that racism and at ways to challenge that at every level. Pretending we aren't racist is precisely part of the problem.

You are sexist too, and almost certainly homophobic. Fucking own it. Then reject it.

This is brilliant too. Internalised racism aside, most of us manage to avoid overtly racist language in everyday life. Nevermind when we're being interviewed over the launch of an antiracist political party.

I mean, if we're all racist why is everyone so hard on Nick Griffin?

 

[Lord Camomile]

Let's grow PAST THAT BIT and admit and admire open self-awareness of inherited, pervasive, casual or institutional racism, look at our external manifestations of that racism and at ways to challenge that at every level.

And that's what Smith did, is it?

 

[SpackleFrog]

This is brilliant too. Internalised racism aside, most of us manage to avoid overtly racist language in everyday life. Nevermind when we're being interviewed over the launch of an antiracist political party.

I mean, if we're all racist why is everyone so hard on Nick Griffin?

If we're all racist why is Wookey so hard on the Labour Party?

 

[danny la rouge]

And that's what Smith did, is it?

 

[SpineyNorman]

If we're all racist why is Wookey so hard on the Labour Party?

It's almost as if they're exploiting anitisemitism in labour to use antiracism as progressive cover for their right wing agenda isn't it?

 

[Wookey]

There are plenty of white working class people in the north who aren’t racist

There are white working class people who are more aware, for sure. Wherever you've got good multi-cultural communities you get that.

I wouldn't absolve them of racism, per se, and if they were genuinely self-aware then they wouldn't absolve themselves either, their relative privilege relies on a racist system, we can't just say "I've read some books and expunged the racist thoughts!" cos it runs way deeper than that. My point is, it's not that useful to say someone is racist, I would rather assume we all are to some extent, and be able to talk about baseless racist prejudices openly, to dispel them and show them for the mirage they are.

 

[Treacle Toes]

I'm not defending them, I picked you up when you said they had used the word "coloured" which she didnt, and which has a great deal of baggage, and is not the same as saying tinge, funny or otherwise.

And I'm allowed an opinion on racism, do please wind your neck in, it's unseemly.

You what?

You are all over the place and it will be a cold day in hell before you, with your silly excuses and attempts to glasslight will tell me what I should and should call racism. You've proved you actually don't have a clue what you are talking about anyway. You haven't offered an opinion on racism, all you've offered are excuses for it.

I'd say describing a nonwhite person as being a 'funny tinge' is dodgy as fuck and yes, you have defended it. Tinge is a synonym for colour or hue. It would have been better if she had said 'coloured' ffs, she wouldn't be the only one to use such an outdated term to mean 'Brown', but she didn't because that isn't what she wanted to express...her use of the word 'funny' was important to her description.

The only neck around here you need to focus on is your own given your posts today have left you up to your neck in bullshit.

 

[SpineyNorman]

There are white working class people who are more aware, for sure. Wherever you've got good multi-cultural communities you get that.

I wouldn't absolve them of racism, per se, and if they were genuinely self-aware then they wouldn't absolve themselves either, their relative privilege relies on a racist system, we can't just say "I've read some books and expunged the racist thoughts!" cos it runs way deeper than that. My point is, it's not that useful to say someone is racist, I would rather assume we all are to some extent, and be able to talk about baseless racist prejudices openly, to dispel them and show them for the mirage they are.

So now it's OK that she said something racist because everyone is racist?

Why is she leaving the Labour party and why are you supporting them again?

 

[butchersapron]

There are white working class people who are more aware, for sure. Wherever you've got good multi-cultural communities you get that.

I wouldn't absolve them of racism, per se, and if they were genuinely self-aware then they wouldn't absolve themselves either, their relative privilege relies on a racist system, we can't just say "I've read some books and expunged the racist thoughts!" cos it runs way deeper than that. My point is, it's not that useful to say someone is racist, I would rather assume we all are to some extent, and be able to talk about baseless racist prejudices openly, to dispel them and show them for the mirage they are.

Note who the absolver is.

Apart from the arrogance, he's also an admitted racist.

 

[Shechemite]

It's almost as if they're exploiting anitisemitism in labour to use antiracism as progressive cover for their right wing agenda isn't it?

Which isn’t at all what team corbyn are doing re Smith

 

[butchersapron]

There are white working class people who are more aware, for sure. Wherever you've got good multi-cultural communities you get that.

I wouldn't absolve them of racism, per se, and if they were genuinely self-aware then they wouldn't absolve themselves either, their relative privilege relies on a racist system, we can't just say "I've read some books and expunged the racist thoughts!" cos it runs way deeper than that. My point is, it's not that useful to say someone is racist, I would rather assume we all are to some extent, and be able to talk about baseless racist prejudices openly, to dispel them and show them for the mirage they are.

Your argument was that she wasn't racist - at least not in what she said earlier. Not that she was. Just to remind you.

edit: of course you went on to call her a racist in general once you realised what you'd done.

 

[SpineyNorman]

Which isn’t at all what team corbyn are doing re Smith

Not sure I follow you there? If you mean they're using her fuckup to deflect criticism over antisemitism I'm sure you're right?

 

[Treacle Toes]

White man explains racism to black woman. Great stuff

What I especially liked about his brief history of the White north of England on the last page was that he thought he was teaching me something. It was pretty telling that he hadn't even considered that like him, my mother is White and all that side of my family are from the North and have been since the 1600s too as far as I know.

 

[sleaterkinney]

Is Derek Hatton going to get Berger's seat?.