Change UK: Chuka Umunna resigns from Labour party and launches Independent Group

[Wookey]

You what?

You are all over the place and it will be a cold day in hell before you, with your silly excuses and attempts to glasslight will tell me what I should and should call racism. You've proved you actually don't have a clue what you are talking about anyway. You haven't offered an opinion on racism, all you've offered are excuses for it.

I'd say describing a nonwhite person as being a 'funny tinge' is dodgy as fuck and yes, you have defended it. Tinge is a synonym for colour or hue. It would have been better if she had said 'coloured' ffs, she wouldn't be the only one to use such an outdated term to mean 'Brown', but she didn't because that isn't what she wanted to express...her use of the word 'funny' was important to her description.

The only neck around here you need to focus on is your own given your posts today have left you up to your neck in bullshit.

Well, sarcastically speaking, you have definitely shed some light on the nuanced issue of racism today, and given me a lot to think about. Thanks for sharing all that hard-won insight in such an affecting way. With allies like you I barely need enemies.

You can call racism wherever you see it, fill your boots; no-one is telling you what to say, so do stop repeatedly accusing me of that. And "gaslighting" is a cheap accusation, made glibly. Sad you would hijack that term when I'm doing no such thing, you really just reduce your own credibility with shit like that.

You can shout Racist at a woman who just resigned because of her party's bigotry and intolerance, you go! Good for you.

I'm not saying she isn't racist. I'm saying she's almost certainly as casually racist as almost every other middle aged Northern working class woman I have ever met. It's hardly news. She will see Black and Brown people as different to her, we should assume that as a given.

What's news is the institutional racism and anti-Semitism from the very top to the very bottom of the Labour party that has caused donkey's years of Labour experience to walk out of the party.

That bit seems not to animate you quite as much, or is that a misperception?

 

[Shechemite]

So where are we? Been in my sick bed all day. Looks like Chukka and six people even less well known than him have quit cos Jezza. Yet one is blaming it on anti-semitism in spite of her record of crying wolf on that issue and another is proclaiming to be pissed by racism in the party, a problem she has solved by leaving the party. And Chukka, dimwit who joins the Labour Party when he’s a sodding Tory.

Is this where were are now?

I see wookey has passed on the baton

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

And wookey is a racist.

Been quite a day. Should’ve done a Lemsip and got out of my pit.

 

[Shechemite]

Well, sarcastically speaking, you have definitely shed some light on the nuanced issue of racism today, and given me a lot to think about. Thanks for sharing all that hard-won insight in such an affecting way. With allies like you I barely need enemies.

You can call racism wherever you see it, fill your boots; no-one is telling you what to say, so do stop repeatedly accusing me of that. And "gaslighting" is a cheap accusation, made glibly. Sad you would hijack that term when I'm doing no such thing, you really just reduce your own credibility with shit like that.

You can shout Racist at a woman who just resigned because of her party's bigotry and intolerance, you go! Good for you.

I'm not saying she isn't racist. I'm saying she's almost certainly as casually racist as almost every other middle aged Northern working class woman I have ever met. It's hardly news. She will see Black and Brown people as different to her, we should assume that as a given.

What's news is the institutional racism and anti-Semitism from the very top to the very bottom of the Labour party that has caused donkey's years of Labour experience to walk out of the party.

That bit seems not to animate you quite as much, or is that a misperception?

I spoke too soon

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

I see wookey has passed on the baton

Wut?

 

[Shechemite]

Crying wolf?

 

[danny la rouge]

she isn't a racist.

I'm not saying she isn't racist.

Any more.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Crying wolf?

Yeah.

 

[Lord Camomile]

What's news is the institutional racism and anti-Semitism from the very top to the very bottom of the Labour party that has caused donkey's years of Labour experience to walk out of the party.

Again, I can't help but ask "such as..?".

I'm honestly not even saying there isn't institutional racism and/or anti-semitism in the Labour party, but continually referring to it without being able to cite examples really isn't helping your argument.

 

[Sprocket.]

This is one of the (many) bits I don't understand. How does being an independent help her any more?

I'm assuming those of the 7 who were looking at deselection are banking on their constituents voting for them even if the local Labour members won't (as hopeful/delusional as that might be...), but seems even more nuts with such a slim majority.

I presume that she thinks better to leave and make an attempt at looking principled and holy than thou, than losing her seat as her constituents oust her.

 

[Lord Camomile]

Only two are young and egotistical enough to put themselves up again.

So what are the others up to? Raising their profile for whatever comes next?

 

[sleaterkinney]

YES. Bring back Degsy!

At least he'd wear a decent suit. See the state of the Scruffy Seven?

He's back in Labour apparently, Galloway next?

 

[butchersapron]

she isn't a racist.

I'm not saying she isn't racist.

Any more.

Yep:

I'm pretty sure she's seven shades of racist

 

[Lord Camomile]

I presume that she thinks better to leave and make an attempt at looking principled and holy than thou, than losing her seat as her constituents oust her.

I can see that to a point, but surely at the next election, when she'll principally stand as an independent, they'll do that anyway

 

[SpackleFrog]

This is one of the (many) bits I don't understand. How does being an independent help her any more?

I'm assuming those of the 7 who were looking at deselection are banking on their constituents voting for them even if the local Labour members won't (as hopeful/delusional as that might be...), but seems even more nuts with such a slim majority.

You have to remember they initially hoped to start with 30 Labour MP's, and they're touting for Tories. Once they'd got that far, the Lib Dems would follow. They weren't intending to be such a small group, they didn't factor in that Angela Smith shouldn't be allowed on telly, and they didn't quite realise how many people would react to this as if they'd got up on stage and started vomiting on each other.

Smith knows her own CLP don't want her and Labour voters don't want her. Added to which she nearly lost her seat in 2017 unlike the others whose vote share increased I think, so it's possible she genuinely thinks that's Corbyn's fault. But attached to a successful new political vehicle, she might have won over Remainers and pro-EU Tories and she knows the Tories massively improved their vote share there. It's not inconceivable she thought it was the only way to retain her seat. Added to which they'd presumably see Nick Clegg's seat, which was Lib Dem for years, as a natural target for somebody. Maybe she was given the impression this new party would be doing a lot of high profile campaigning in the neighbouring constituency.

This is all fairly wild speculation obviously but then it's hard to produce convincing reasons why she would think this would work - think you just have to remember she might have seen this as her only chance of keeping her seat.

As funny as this has all been, it's a shame in a way that today has gone so badly for them because now a) other nasty bastards in the Labour Party haven't left with them and b) I don't expect much destabilisation for the Tories after today.

 

[Sprocket.]

I can see that to a point, but surely at the next election, when she'll principally stand as an independent, they'll do that anyway

She would probably stand in another constituency, probably chosen by her new leader. Whether that’s Chukka, Blair or Clegg is another quandary.

 

[Shechemite]

Yeah.

Yes. Taking wookeys baton. (Or sharing it as he’s still running)

 

[butchersapron]

The general idea they've been pushing to media is that they won't be standing at all in their old seats. As if chuka would ever adhere to that.

 

[butchersapron]

What's news is the institutional racism and anti-Semitism from the very top to the very bottom of the Labour party that has caused donkey's years of Labour experience to walk out of the party.

Talk more about this please. Expand.

 

[SpookyFrank]

The general idea they've been pushing to media is that they won't be standing at all in their old seats. As if chuka would ever adhere to that.

Well if they have no interest in representing their current constituencies that's even more reason for them all to resign and fuck off.

 

[elbows]

This is one of the (many) bits I don't understand. How does being an independent help her any more?

I'm assuming those of the 7 who were looking at deselection are banking on their constituents voting for them even if the local Labour members won't (as hopeful/delusional as that might be...), but seems even more nuts with such a slim majority.

I think some people dont necessarily want to remain as MPs if their ideology is not in the ascendance and they dont have enough influence, especially if the writing is already on the wall for them. Or they are somewhat resigned to their fate but still want to wriggle around a bit just in case there is room to save themselves, or at least go down in a manner that allows them to see themselves as sacrificing something for an ideological cause.

Alternatively, if the likes of the 'Tom Watson wants a reshuffle' narrative the Guardian are parping on about this evening is anything to go by, I think plenty of the calculations are still all about the fate of Labour, not the fate of this new group. If their existence outside Labour can increase the pressure inside Labour, the party may yet move back in their sort of direction, and thats what they probably still hope for. Thats certainly what some Labour MPs who didnt jump ship today are likely angling for, try to use the reality of the 7 and their own threats to join them to ramp up the pressure, without actually having to jump ship themselves. I hope bluffs get called.

 

[Wookey]

And wookey is a racist.

Wookey is adult enough to recognise in himself the lingering unwanted effects of social influencing, inherited from a society stratified by various privileges and unfair power-structures based on class, gender, race and sexuality, and actually believes that to deny the existence of such an unhealthy inheritance in everybody is a step closer to the realisation of thought-crime, and destined to re-enforce the stratifications of society and not, as he would prefer, to undo them. There's a thread on this somewhere...

Or yeah, Wookey is a racist.

 

[butchersapron]

Wookey is adult enough to recognise in himself the lingering unwanted effects of social influencing, inherited from a society stratified by various privileges and unfair power-structures based on class, gender, race and sexuality, and actually believes that to deny the existence of such an unhealthy inheritance in everybody is a step closer to the realisation of thought-crime, and destined to re-enforce the stratifications of society and not, as he would prefer, to undo them. There's a thread on this somewhere...

Or yeah, Wookey is a racist.

Wookey is the best flipper. Hey you thought i was defending a stupid racist mindset but i was really doing a great ANTI-racism. Be as good as me racists.

 

[Sprocket.]

I only hope Wookey doesn't start posting and referring to himself in the third person.

 

[killer b]

this is some incredible work.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Yes. Taking wookeys baton. (Or sharing it as he’s still running)

Think you need to go back and re-read shit. I ain’t touching wookey’s baton, ta very much.

 

[SpackleFrog]

He's back in Labour apparently, Galloway next?

Nah. Galloway probably not a great look given the antisemitism scandal. Think Degsy is sufficiently petit bourgeois these days to be considered safe.

 

[butchersapron]

I only hope Wookey doesn't start posting and referring to himself in the third person.

Hey if Arthur scargill did not think that talking in the third person was a great idea then you can be sure that arthur scargill would not do so.

 

[Shechemite]

I only hope Wookey doesn't start posting and referring to himself in the third person.

Wookey spotted earlier

 

[Sprocket.]

Hey if Arthur scargill did not think that talking in the third person was a great idea then you can be sure that arthur scargill would not do so.

Wookey and Arthur, by heck a raight team.