campaign against welfare cuts and poverty

[Blagsta]

I dunno about anyone else, but I'm sick of seeing people say "why doesn't someone do something" (yes, I know actually some people are, but y'know...).

Let's do something. I'm in south London. What I'd like to see is ideas for tactics/strategy on this thread and to arrange an initial meeting.

Anyone up for it? Or am I pissing in the wind?

 

[Brainaddict]

Do you know about the London Coalition Against Poverty? Quite a new group - a bit direct actiony - don't know if that's what you're after.

http://www.hackneyindependent.org/2007_news_menu/london_coaltion_against_poverty_first_newsl.html

 

[chymaera]

Or am I pissing in the wind?

Pissing in the wind. No-one has given a monkeys fuck about the way disabled people are being treated since Obersturmbhanfuhrer Lilley instigated the All Work Test for Incapacity Benefit.

 

[jonH]

Pissing in the wind. No-one has given a monkeys fuck about the way disabled people are being treated since Obersturmbhanfuhrer Lilley instigated the All Work Test for Incapacity Benefit.

i got 0 fucking points

 

[_angel_]

I'm in Leeds but I'll do something if anyone wants. (Of what use I am ??)

 

[In Bloom]

I'd be up for doing something around this.

I was actually thinking of trying to get a claiment's union going in Merseyside. And then maybe after that I'll punch out Mike Tyson and climb Everest

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

Tbh, whilst i would applaud anyone making the effort to do something (eg starting a claimants' union), I work on this all day long and can't find the enthusiasm to start campaigning on the issue when I'm out of work. It keeps me awake at night already and I need to retain my sanity. Always happy to share thoughts and opinions through this medium and would support the broader aims.

 

[Taxamo Welf]

i'd plug London Coalition Against Poverty as well.

ps "Full Metal Anarchist" best tagline evar

 

[Blagsta]

Do you know about the London Coalition Against Poverty? Quite a new group - a bit direct actiony - don't know if that's what you're after.

http://www.hackneyindependent.org/2007_news_menu/london_coaltion_against_poverty_first_newsl.html

Yeah I've been trying to get to their meetings for the last month or so and not making it for one reason and another. I'm going to try my best tomorrow though.

 

[Spion]

Is there any information anywhere on this welfare reform thing? I want to be able to make my mind up about it and the two chief carpers on the subject never seem to provide any facts

 

[Urbanblues]

Is there any information anywhere on this welfare reform thing? I want to be able to make my mind up about it and the two chief carpers on the subject never seem to provide any facts

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2007/pdf/ukpga_20070005_en.pdf

As for providing facts of the impact of welfare reform on disabled people; unfortunately, we’ll only know the true devastation of the ‘reform’, once disabled people are taken off IB; once they’re forced onto JSA; or, after they’ve been pushed into jobs, despite the fact they are not able to work.

For a post mortem, one needs a corpse.

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

You could have a look at the SWAN website (Sheffield Welfare Action Network), or the Disability Alliance website for more info on welfare reform.

 

[Spion]

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2007/pdf/ukpga_20070005_en.pdf

Is there anything a little more digestable? I'm not really on for reading 93 pages of a govt document. Has no one campaigning against this produced anything on it?

As for providing facts of the impact of welfare reform on disabled people; unfortunately, we’ll only know the true devastation of the ‘reform’, once disabled people are taken off IB; once they’re forced onto JSA; or, after they’ve been pushed into jobs, despite the fact they are not able to work.

Oh come one. It must surely be possible to say what the measures will be and give some idea of their likely effect. I don't get IB or know anyone that does. Some people keep describing this as tantamount to the gas chambers and I'm still waiting for some decent info on it

 

[Spion]

You could have a look at the SWAN website (Sheffield Welfare Action Network), or the Disability Alliance website for more info on welfare reform.

OK, cool, thanks

 

[Spion]

This is the clearest description I've found so far http://www.disabilityalliance.org/f31.htm

Does that cover all of it or is there more to this welfare reform?

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

Is there anything a little more digestable? I'm not really on for reading 93 pages of a govt document. Has no one campaigning against this produced anything on it?

Oh come one. It must surely be possible to say what the measures will be and give some idea of their likely effect. I don't get IB or know anyone that does. Some people keep describing this as tantamount to the gas chambers and I'm still waiting for some decent info on it

There's a summary of the main changes implemented by the Welfare Reform Act here, in terms of the introduction of employment and support allowance.

The latest evaluation of the new capability assessment, which decides whether people will be entitled to the new benefit, indicates that the disallowance rate will increase from ~38% up to ~50%, despite an absence of evidence to show that people are receiving incapacity benefits when they shouldn't be (DWP statisticians found such low levels of fraud, that they could not measure it for incapacity benefit, such is the stringent and rigorous nature of the test of entitlement).

 

[treelover]

Exactly, well put, that is what i have been arguing for some time, once it becomes law, as the WRA is now, it largely becomes the individuals problem and possibly a welfare rights officer. The individual wil often blame themselves, feel isolated and yes, frightened as the full force of the state bears down on them. At least bearing witness to this state of affairs is a start. Something i think the US left/liberal left where this dire system is entrenched has never done, may be wrong though.

As for providing facts of the impact of welfare reform on disabled people; unfortunately, we’ll only know the true devastation of the ‘reform’, once disabled people are taken off IB; once they’re forced onto JSA; or, after they’ve been pushed into jobs, despite the fact they are not able to work.

For a post mortem, one needs a corpse.

 

[treelover]

reasonable critique here


Myths of absenteeism mask the true issues to be addressed on incapacity
PAUL SPICKER

THE commentary about incapacity benefit (IB) in last week's newspapers has been overcooked. But we can't blame the press for saying Peter Hain was mounting a "drive to end sick-note Britain": that came from the Department of Work and Pensions' (DWP) media centre.

Nor can we complain about them inflating the numbers of claimants to 2.7 million. The DWP has combined the figures for recipients of IB and income support, adding nearly a million "claimants not receiving benefit" to the totals they used to report.


http://news.scotsman.com/health.cfm?id=1856082007

 

[Spion]

Exactly, well put, that is what i have been arguing for some time, once it becomes law, as the WRA is now, it largely becomes the individuals problem and possibly a welfare rights officer. The individual wil often blame themselves, feel isolated and yes, frightened as the full force of the state bears down on them. At least bearing witness to this state of affairs is a start. Something i think the US left/liberal left where this dire system is entrenched has never done, may be wrong though.

It's not well put tho, because it doesn't explain precisely what this act will do. From reading these sites I'm getting that it will assess people currently getting IB to:

"find out whether you have a ‘limited capability for work’.
find out whether you have a ‘limited capability for work-related activity’.
carry out a ‘work-focused health-related assessment’."

and if you're placed in the 'work-focussed' group you will meet an advisor to:

"discuss your work prospects, the steps that you are willing to take to move into work and the support available to you."

from http://www.disabilityalliance.org/f31.htm

Does that go any way to summing it up?

 

[Blagsta]

Well I'm going to go to the LCAP meeting tomorrow (if it's on!), barring floods, earthquakes or me coming down with tonsillitis again.

 

[treelover]

SWAN had a very sucessful meeting tonight, there will now defintely be a national conference on welfare issues in the spring, possibly another demo,(we have had plenty) have a look at the website for the last one

 

[chymaera]

Wouldn't this thread be better in the General Forum?

 

[treelover]

Yes,, this is the graveyard of boards


ask a mod, i do think the gravity of the situation merits it, but imo, then no more
welfare threads for awhile, IRAN is on the horizon now....

 

[_angel_]

Yes,, this is the graveyard of boards


ask a mod, i do think the gravity of the situation merits it, but imo, then no more
welfare threads for awhile, IRAN is on the horizon now....

I've pmed you.

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

It's not well put tho, because it doesn't explain precisely what this act will do. From reading these sites I'm getting that it will assess people currently getting IB to:

"find out whether you have a ‘limited capability for work’.
find out whether you have a ‘limited capability for work-related activity’.
carry out a ‘work-focused health-related assessment’."

and if you're placed in the 'work-focussed' group you will meet an advisor to:

"discuss your work prospects, the steps that you are willing to take to move into work and the support available to you."

from http://www.disabilityalliance.org/f31.htm

Does that go any way to summing it up?

In theory, maybe, in practice, as many people who rely on benefits know, it can be a very different scenario. For example, more than 50% of people who appeal against decisions to refuse them benefit as the result of a medical examination go onto win their appeal, pointing at very poor decision making and evidence gathering by DWP.

Similarly, the discussion of work prospects can often be something that is little more than orders to apply for any job, no matter what the suitability, at threat of having financial sanctions applied to already inadequate benefits. I think that there are some good principles and ideas insofar as looking to be more proactive in helping people with ill health or disability to look at what they could do to move closer to the labour market, but when you have something like 500,000 vulnerable workers (according to TUC definitions), I'm not so certain that this isn't a move towards a workfare system which has the effect of pushing down wages & T&C's for all low-paid workers.

 

[_angel_]

In theory, maybe, in practice, as many people who rely on benefits know, it can be a very different scenario. For example, more than 50% of people who appeal against decisions to refuse them benefit as the result of a medical examination go onto win their appeal, pointing at very poor decision making and evidence gathering by DWP.

Similarly, the discussion of work prospects can often be something that is little more than orders to apply for any job, no matter what the suitability, at threat of having financial sanctions applied to already inadequate benefits. I think that there are some good principles and ideas insofar as looking to be more proactive in helping people with ill health or disability to look at what they could do to move closer to the labour market, but when you have something like 500,000 vulnerable workers (according to TUC definitions), I'm not so certain that this isn't a move towards a workfare system which has the effect of pushing down wages & T&C's for all low-paid workers.

Was I the only person to notice this post on another thread...

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=6789556&postcount=90

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

That's quite worrying innit. Especially with the news that they're trialing voice stress analysis as well (aka lie detectors) even though some spokespeople(?) from the insurance industry has stated publicly that the software is unreliable.

 

[_angel_]

That's quite worrying innit. Especially with the news that they're trialing voice stress analysis as well (aka lie detectors) even though some spokespeople(?) from the insurance industry has stated publicly that the software is unreliable.

I thought it was horribly shocking. Of course you're going to get bastards if people are paid per case they manage to stop claiming. That's just plain wrong.

 

[Blagsta]

That's quite worrying innit. Especially with the news that they're trialing voice stress analysis as well (aka lie detectors) even though some spokespeople(?) from the insurance industry has stated publicly that the software is unreliable.

It's not just the software that's unreliable, it's the entire concept.

 

[Blagsta]

In theory, maybe, in practice, as many people who rely on benefits know, it can be a very different scenario. For example, more than 50% of people who appeal against decisions to refuse them benefit as the result of a medical examination go onto win their appeal, pointing at very poor decision making and evidence gathering by DWP.

Similarly, the discussion of work prospects can often be something that is little more than orders to apply for any job, no matter what the suitability, at threat of having financial sanctions applied to already inadequate benefits. I think that there are some good principles and ideas insofar as looking to be more proactive in helping people with ill health or disability to look at what they could do to move closer to the labour market, but when you have something like 500,000 vulnerable workers (according to TUC definitions), I'm not so certain that this isn't a move towards a workfare system which has the effect of pushing down wages & T&C's for all low-paid workers.

Nail on head. As I posted on another thread

Work is not some magical solution to people's problems. Work is pretty shit for a lot of people. The problem is that people will probably not be encouraged to find work that suits them, work they enjoy and work that isn't going to make their problems worse. In all likelihood, they'll be forced into any job to make the stats look good or they'll be put onto shitty New Deal type courses, where our tax money pays private enterprises to pretend to train people.