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Bye bye MEAT! How will the post-meat future look?

How reluctant are you to give up your meat habit?


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As it's already been pointed out to you, Poore & Nemecek repeatedly discuss regional and geographic variability in their paper, do you really think an omission that significant would be missed in the peer-review process for a journal like Science? This is literally the third sentence of the paper: 'Impact can vary 50-fold among producers of the same product, creating substantial mitigation opportunities.' It continues 'However, mitigation is complicated by trade-offs, multiple ways for producers to achieve low impacts, and interactions throughout the supply chain. Producers have limits on how far they can reduce impacts. Most strikingly, impacts of the lowest-impact animal products typically exceed those of vegetable substitutes, providing new evidence for the importance of dietary change.'

These variations are captured in this diagram:


360_987_f1.jpeg


The paper also notes:



Your claim that the paper ignores regional and geographic variation is false and FM's claim that the paper 'assumes all livestock systems are CAFOs' is also false.
Yeah just like Andrew Wakefield :facepalm:
 
Their "lowest impact systems"  are feedlot systems, by way.
Some feedlot systems use more grass products than others.

As per the peer reviewed critiques I've posted here that you can't be arsed to read.

This contradicts your last post which said that their paper '[a]ssumes all livestock systems are CAFOs'. If they did work on that assumption (which they didn't) then, by their own lights, they would have under-estimated the environmental impact of animal ag according to you. Not sure what sort of point you think you're making.

I will read those critiques if they exist, I can't be arsed to search this thread looking for them though. Link to the post you mentioned them in if you want engagement with them.

Joseph Poore is an economist by trade - essentially a mathematician.

And Nemecek's expertise is in agroecology and the environment. A pretty good combination of academic knowledge and skills for the purposes of that paper.
 
sigh

"The relationship between livestock production and greenhouse gas emissions is the subject of multiple global assessments and much public and policy commentary. Too often, this results in misunderstandings, rooted in a poor comprehension of both the impacts and benefits of different systems of livestock production, despite plentiful, comprehensive, evidence-based reviews (e.g., Alibés et al., 2020; Herrero et al., 2016, 2009; Paul et al., 2020; Rivera-Ferre et al., 2016). A generalized narrative frequently prevails, which argues for major shifts in diets to reduce meat and milk consumption and a reduction in livestock production worldwide, releasing land for conservation uses and rewilding. This article challenges this now widely held narrative, arguing for a more differentiated perspective, based on a more sophisticated approach to global assessments.

This is important since methane—the greenhouse gas emitted by ruminant livestock—has become the centre of recent climate mitigation debates (Reisinger et al., 2021). As a powerful “climate-forcing” gas, methane has major effects on global warming, even though its lifetime in the atmosphere is short relative to carbon dioxide. Livestock production, together with gas pipelines, shale fracking, waste dumps and wet rice agriculture, is a significant emitter of methane.1 Reducing methane therefore is seen as a “quick win” for climate mitigation due to its significant influence on warming in the short term, and the Global Methane Pledge that commits to reducing methane by 30% by 2030 has over 100 countries as signatories.2

Efforts to reduce methane emissions will have major implications for livestock production globally, as systems of greenhouse gas measurement, verification, and climate emissions reporting are established. But which livestock, where? What are the uncertainties within the global scientific assessments central to framing mitigation policies? What assumptions and biases may distort, with what consequences? These are just some of the questions addressed in this article, which is based on the recent report, Are Livestock Always Bad for the Planet? Rethinking the Protein Transition and Climate Change Debate (Houzer & Scoones, 2021, Report: Are livestock always bad for the planet?)."

From: Scoones, I., 2023. Livestock, methane, and climate change: The politics of global assessments. Wiley Interdisciplinary Reviews: Climate Change, 14(1), p.e790.

Hoping the embedded links work too for further reading.
 
This contradicts your last post which said that their paper '[a]ssumes all livestock systems are CAFOs'. If they did work on that assumption (which they didn't) then, by their own lights, they would have under-estimated the environmental impact of animal ag according to you. Not sure what sort of point you think you're making.

I will read those critiques if they exist, I can't be arsed to search this thread looking for them though. Link to the post you mentioned them in if you want engagement with them.



And Nemecek's expertise is in agroecology and the environment. A pretty good combination of academic knowledge and skills for the purposes of that paper.
I'm not re-linking stuff to entertain you. If you want to read them, click back through the thread.
 
Lent is a GREAT time to reconfigure your diet to the non-meat side! I had cuttlefish curry. Have a blessed Ash Wednesday!
 
So I have to trawl through the more than 300 posts of yours on this thread to find it? Hard pass.
You could have chosen to engage with them at the time, but mysteriously, you didn't.

I dunno where you get your sense of entitlement from, but its not my job to entertain you.

You have proven over and over again on this thread that you have no idea how science works and chosen instead to try and paint me as some sort of crank.
It's apparent that you do this from a position of no scientific expertise whatsoever, but rather from a moral position that you hold about eating meat being wrong.
It's fine, hold that position if you like, and don't eat meat if you so choose, I couldn't care less.
Ultimately, it's a position that not much of humanity hold and eating meat won't be going anywhere.
I get that large food processing companies are desperate to paint all meat eating as bad for the environment so that they can use processing technology to consolidate their already considerable hold on the food supply chain, but plenty of people (including vegans) are not buying their take, or their highly processed meat alternatives.
 
You could have chosen to engage with them at the time, but mysteriously, you didn't.

I dunno where you get your sense of entitlement from, but its not my job to entertain you.

You have proven over and over again on this thread that you have no idea how science works and chosen instead to try and paint me as some sort of crank.
It's apparent that you do this from a position of no scientific expertise whatsoever, but rather from a moral position that you hold about eating meat being wrong.
It's fine, hold that position if you like, and don't eat meat if you so choose, I couldn't care less.
Ultimately, it's a position that not much of humanity hold and eating meat won't be going anywhere.
I get that large food processing companies are desperate to paint all meat eating as bad for the environment so that they can use processing technology to consolidate their already considerable hold on the food supply chain, but plenty of people (including vegans) are not buying their take, or their highly processed meat alternatives.

It would’ve been faster to just link the articles you supposedly posted than type that load of whiny, boring shit.
 
sigh

"The relationship between livestock production and greenhouse gas emissions is the subject of multiple global assessments and much public and policy commentary. Too often, this results in misunderstandings, rooted in a poor comprehension of both the impacts and benefits of different systems of livestock production, despite plentiful, comprehensive, evidence-based reviews (e.g., Alibés et al., 2020; Herrero et al., 2016, 2009; Paul et al., 2020; Rivera-Ferre et al., 2016). A generalized narrative frequently prevails, which argues for major shifts in diets to reduce meat and milk consumption and a reduction in livestock production worldwide, releasing land for conservation uses and rewilding. This article challenges this now widely held narrative, arguing for a more differentiated perspective, based on a more sophisticated approach to global assessments.

This is important since methane—the greenhouse gas emitted by ruminant livestock—has become the centre of recent climate mitigation debates (Reisinger et al., 2021). As a powerful “climate-forcing” gas, methane has major effects on global warming, even though its lifetime in the atmosphere is short relative to carbon dioxide. Livestock production, together with gas pipelines, shale fracking, waste dumps and wet rice agriculture, is a significant emitter of methane.1 Reducing methane therefore is seen as a “quick win” for climate mitigation due to its significant influence on warming in the short term, and the Global Methane Pledge that commits to reducing methane by 30% by 2030 has over 100 countries as signatories.2

Efforts to reduce methane emissions will have major implications for livestock production globally, as systems of greenhouse gas measurement, verification, and climate emissions reporting are established. But which livestock, where? What are the uncertainties within the global scientific assessments central to framing mitigation policies? What assumptions and biases may distort, with what consequences? These are just some of the questions addressed in this article, which is based on the recent report, Are Livestock Always Bad for the Planet? Rethinking the Protein Transition and Climate Change Debate (Houzer & Scoones, 2021, Report: Are livestock always bad for the planet?)."

From: Scoones, I., 2023. Livestock, methane, and climate change: The politics of global assessments. Wiley Interdisciplinary Reviews: Climate Change, 14(1), p.e790.

Hoping the embedded links work too for further reading.
Do you need to explain to the veggie types who this 'Al' is that's involved in all those studies? :hmm:
 

Cambridge University students vote for completely vegan menus​


This is exactly the slippery slope that people used to give vegetarians a hard time about, and which vegetarians used to get irritated about, because they would just want to be left in peace to eat what they wanted without having to answer for it to meat eaters.
 
This is exactly the slippery slope that people used to give vegetarians a hard time about, and which vegetarians used to get irritated about, because they would just want to be left in peace to eat what they wanted without having to answer for it to meat eaters.

What’s at the bottom of the slippery slope in this metaphor?
 

Cambridge University students vote for completely vegan menus​



Cambridge is collegiate, most dining by students is done in college, colleges are not changing menu.

Dining is mixed, and age of college is not always reciprocated in quality of meal.

Although some can and do for example 400 covers of fillet of beef and still get the end product to a high end restaurant standard.

Anyway I would worry more about the colleges investing in big oil.
 
People being told they aren’t allowed to eat meat any more

So you don't believe in democratic voting? And of course meat eaters can still eat as must meat as there bloodthirsty diet demands - but they'll just have to order it from somewhere else. Boohoo.

The group’s motion, which calls for the change in response to “climate and biodiversity crises”, was backed by 72% of non-abstaining student representatives who voted after a four-week consultation process. It comes after lobbying from Cambridge’s Plant-Based Universities campaign, which is supported by Animal Rebellion.

And it's hardly a new thing:
“The university catering services has already made important strides, for example in 2016 when it removed beef and lamb from all its menus. We look forward to working with them on the next necessary steps.”
 
So you don't believe in democratic voting?
Democratic voting doesn’t normally mean that the minority is completely frozen out. Vegetarians are a minority — if a vote determined that no restaurants would now have any meat-free option, would you be content with that? Of course not.
 
It's revealing how the authoritarian tendencies are spilling out. And it isn't meat-eaters insisting that others eat meat. It isn't meat-eaters throwing around insults at vegans. It is the reverse. Time and again, editor, JeffR and others don't even bother concealing their contempt for anyone who doesn't agree with them that meat-eating is wrong. When push comes to shove, they're happy to impose their will on others, delighted when they see others doing so.

I don't want to live in your world, editor. I don't presume to dictate to others how they should live. You repeat the same mistake again and again. Your position is so morally bankrupt that you will cheer on authoritarianism and delight in the consequences of the cost of living crisis. You have no politics. Nothing.
 
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