Bye bye MEAT! How will the post-meat future look?

[Funky_monks]

Also re: the poor - meat substitutes are much more expensive than yer actual meat.

 

[Spymaster]

It was a drive-by dig, then. You insult me then fuck off?

Proof, if it were needed, that some people aren't here for discussion at all!

 

[gentlegreen]

Also re: the poor - meat substitutes are much more expensive than yer actual meat.

You're adding a cultural dimension.
Neither meat, nor their imitations are necessary in the diet...
I haven't had the first for over 40 years and I've hardly ever eaten anything seriously pretending to be meat - give me nut cutlets any day.

And as it happens Aldi do some very tasty fake sausages for 1.25 for 6 - and though I haven't looked closely at the ingredients, the (soy) protein per 100kcals is excellent ...

 

[littlebabyjesus]

It's obviously possible to eat very healthily without meat when on a budget. However, cultural dimensions are necessary if you want to consider how people live and what struggles they might have. A hard-pressed, time-starved parent who lives in an area without great shops and needs to feed fussy youngsters every night is likely to find it much harder to get their kids eating very healthily without meat when on a budget. there are both practical issues such as where to buy things and where to get the time to prepare them and issues to do with knowledge about how to do such things, plus there are the fussy eaters themselves, the kids.

The worry with some of these meat substitutes is the nutritional element. Meat gets a lot of bad press for causing cancer, etc, but a piece of good fresh meat is packed full of all kinds of nutrients. A piece of meat is a one-stop-shop for a great number of things, easy to prepare and easy to get the kids to eat.

 

[editor]

You're adding a cultural dimension.
Neither meat, nor their imitations are necessary in the diet...
I haven't had the first for over 40 years and I've hardly ever eaten anything seriously pretending to be meat - give me nut cutlets any day.

And as it happens Aldi do some very tasty fake sausages for 1.25 for 6 - and though I haven't looked closely at the ingredients, the (soy) protein per 100kcals is excellent ...

Indeed you can. And meat substitutes can be cheaper than slaughtered flesh:

Researchers compared meat and plant-based products within strict parameters. All items were the lowest priced options and vegan alternatives matched their animal counterparts in terms of portion size.

In total, 36 products were compared. ProVeg acknowledges that the differences between supermarket chain ranges remain large, with identifiably different target consumers. However, overall findings confirm that animal meat has become more expensive than vegan meat across the board.

In February, plant-based burgers were found to be 56 cents per kilo more costly than meat alternatives. Last month they came in at 78 cents per kilo cheaper.

Similarly, vegan chicken pieces were more expensive, by an average of €1.16 per kilo, than animal varieties. Now, they are 37 cents cheaper.

Previously, plant-based mince was 29 cents per kilo more expensive than meat. Last month it came in at €1.36 less per kilo.

Oxford University states that the misunderstanding often stems from comparing conventional meat to specialist substitutes or surviving on takeaways.

The institution conducted research that found vegan and vegetarian diets are the most cost-effective options in high-income countries.

“We think the fact that vegan, vegetarian, and flexitarian diets can save you a lot of money is going to surprise people,” Dr. Marco Springmann, a researcher at Oxford University, said in a statement.

Plant-Based Meat Now Costs Less Than Animal Meat In The Netherlands

Plant-based meat is cheaper than animal meat in the Netherlands, following significant price spikes and supplier issues.

plantbasednews.org

Vegan Diets Cheaper On Global Scale, Says Oxford University

Researchers at Oxford University assessed the costs of 'sustainable' diets across several countries, with veganism coming on top

plantbasednews.org

And here's the study published in The Lancet

Variants of vegetarian and vegan dietary patterns were generally most affordable, and pescatarian diets were least affordable.

The global and regional costs of healthy and sustainable dietary patterns: a modelling study

In high-income and upper-middle-income countries, dietary change interventions that incentivise adoption of healthy and sustainable diets can help consumers in those countries reduce costs while, at the same time, contribute to fulfilling national climate change commitments and reduce public...

www.thelancet.com

 

[gentlegreen]

The worry with some of these meat substitutes is the nutritional element. Meat gets a lot of bad press for causing cancer, etc, but a piece of good fresh meat is packed full of all kinds of nutrients. A piece of meat is a one-stop-shop for a great number of things, easy to prepare and easy to get the kids to eat.

All you need is veggies and beans...

As to getting kids to eat healthy food, you have me there I never wanted to raise any when I was younger and I look at parenthood with even more horror now as I watch people my age in the park - often clearly providing daycare for grandchildren
My niece's 8 year old is terrifying.

 

[Funky_monks]

You're adding a cultural dimension.
Neither meat, nor their imitations are necessary in the diet...
I haven't had the first for over 40 years and I've hardly ever eaten anything seriously pretending to be meat - give me nut cutlets any day.

And as it happens Aldi do some very tasty fake sausages for 1.25 for 6 - and though I haven't looked closely at the ingredients, the (soy) protein per 100kcals is excellent ...

But that's not the topic of the thread, is it?
The subject at hand is the wholesale replacement of animal protien with synthetic, mass produced meat substitutes.

Also; carbohydrate in any form are not necessary in the diet, they are the only macronutrient we can live without eating.
Would I advocate a carbless diet?
Fuck no.

 

[Funky_monks]

Plant based meat up to 50% more expensive than meat, in the UK finds Which? Magazine: Plant-based alternatives can cost twice as much as meat, Which? finds - Which? News

Also, the thing that worries me about those comparisons is that they are comparing like-for-like, ie plant based burgers vs beefburgers, vege sausages vs sausages etc. So, its processed crap vs processed crap.

Where does unrefined, unprocessed meat come in?

 

[gentlegreen]

Also; carbohydrate in any form are not necessary in the diet, they are the only macronutrient we can live without eating.

quelle surprise

 

[gentlegreen]

Anyway I will iggy this thread again and leave it to the grass-fed / bone broth / keto / raw carnivores / regenerative agriculture apologists...

Have we had "the NWO wants us to eat insects" yet ?

 

[Funky_monks]

quelle surprise

Did you miss the bit underneath that?

My point was, just because you can survive by not eating something, it doesn't necessarily mean you should (or indeed, that it's healthy)

 

[butcher]

So do you think that everyone should go vegan Ed or are some animal products acceptable?

If the meat industry is so frightful is it your premise that if you can go vegan you should? Or are the by products of the meat industry acceptable to your ethics?

 

[Funky_monks]

Anyway I will iggy this thread again and leave it to the grass-fed / bone broth / keto / raw carnivores / regenerative agriculture apologists...

Have we had "the NWO wants us to eat insects" yet ?

Also, we've discussed insect protein (not negatively, as it goes) and I don't see anything to apologise for by supporting the regeneration of depleted soils as part of agricultural practice. The farm at Newcastle Uni is going entirely regen and I think the RAU have just invested millions in a centre to look at sustainable food production.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Anyway I will iggy this thread again and leave it to the grass-fed / bone broth / keto / raw carnivores / regenerative agriculture apologists...

Have we had "the NWO wants us to eat insects" yet ?

Why the need to create a false caricature of the positions of people posting here rather than engage with what is actually said. You're not the only one doing this. Editor does it, as does Ddraig. Why?

If meat-eaters did that about vegans, there would be an outcry. If we all refrained from doing it, we could have a much more interesting discussion.

 

[Funky_monks]

Why the need to create a false caricature of the positions of people posting here rather than engage with what is actually said. You're not the only one doing this. Editor does it, as does Ddraig. Why?

I can think of a few, off the top of my head, like......

 

[friedaweed]

It's been happening all the way through, right at the beginning, I talked about how agriculture needed to change and went on to particularly discuss pig and poultry in relation to this.

I don't think anything I've written has actually been read.

Instead we have "Teh MeAt InDustReeez" as if its some conglomerate of a few mega corps and an utter failure to acknowledge that the massive meat processors are often the exact people developing those highly processed meat substitutes and therefore they are both "evil" and "our saviours" simultaneously.

There's also been a deliberate failure to even consider how crops and livestock are linked and how we are to feed a massive population sustainably and affordability, the latter being of primary concern to Agricultural scientists.

I read what you post with interest tbh FM, I may have missed some of your earlier contributions as I've dipped in and out, but yes I think some vegetable folk deliberately choose to ignore what's posted on this thread if it doesn't go down with their 1985 Smiths T-shirt.

I'm not actually sure that one particular poster reads an awful lot of what he posts on this thread either let alone willing to engage with others. Like the recent offering where the pescatarian he offered up as radical plant based meat science who decided to eat chicken again because his own scientific research contradicted his previously held personal beliefs. No chance of that with the cheddar loving vegetarian who unknowingly feeds people oat spunk though.

It's a waste of time trying to have a conversation with someone who's solely set on pointscoring and being abusive to folk who try to engage with what he posts up. It's like a Garveylives hit and run every time.

It's not a good look constantly playing the man and not the ball. Bit embarrassing for someone of his age.

 

[Funky_monks]

I read what you post with interest tbh FM, I may have missed some of your earlier contributions as I've dipped in and out, but yes I think some vegetable folk deliberately choose to ignore what's posted on this thread if it doesn't go down with their 1985 Smiths T-shirt.

Thanks, I didn't mean you, I was aiming it more at some of the people who profess to be some sort of expert on sustainable food production having read The Guardian and......er Plant Based News...

 

[porp]

I made some nice soup today, then saw this thread, then wondered:

"Is anyone making plant-based bones, marrow, gristle, connective tissue, tendon etc. What about plant-based liver, brains and offal?"

I mean flesh is all very well, but these other meat parts are often tastier. I look forward to plant -based kidney, with a plant -based very faint taste of piss. I hope Linda McCartney can manage that.

 

[friedaweed]

I made some nice soup today, then saw this thread, then wondered:

"Is anyone making plant-based bones, marrow, gristle, connective tissue, tendon etc. What about plant-based liver, brains and offal?"

I mean flesh is all very well, but these other meat parts are often tastier. I look forward to plant -based kidney, with a plant -based very faint taste of piss. I hope Linda McCartney can manage that.

You'll have trouble getting piss out of Linda at this point. Her ashes were spread on Macca's farm in 1998.

 

[editor]

So do you think that everyone should go vegan Ed or are some animal products acceptable?

If the meat industry is so frightful is it your premise that if you can go vegan you should? Or are the by products of the meat industry acceptable to your ethics?

Oh, lots of personal questions as if what I think matters in the grand scheme of things!

But seeing as you've asked, I'd love it if everyone went veggie/vegan or at the very least dramatically reduced their intake of meat, I find the meat industry fucking disgusting and hideously cruel, I've no idea what your 'by-products/ethics' question is about, and just in case you're interested, I've had an entirely vegan diet for the last three weeks and feel pretty good about it.

And now that I've answered all your questions, kindly reveal your Big Point.

 

[bcuster]

 

[butcher]

Oh, lots of personal questions as if what I think matters in the grand scheme of things!

Hardly personal

But seeing as you've asked, I'd love it if everyone went veggie/vegan or at the very least dramatically reduced their intake of meat, I find the meat industry fucking disgusting and hideously cruel, I've no idea what your 'by-products/ethics' question is about, and just in case you're interested, I've had an entirely vegan diet for the last three weeks and feel pretty good about it.

Getting that vegan vibe already.

I just find it astounding that someone who is so vitriolic about the meat industry (and associated by products) would not have taken vegan shilling earlier.

I was just wondering what level of hypocrisy I was witnessing.

And now that I've answered all your questions, kindly reveal your Big Point.

See above.

 

[editor]

Hardly personal

Getting that vegan vibe already.

I just find it astounding that someone who is so vitriolic about the meat industry (and associated by products) would not have taken vegan shilling earlier.

I was just wondering what level of hypocrisy I was witnessing.


See above.

So it's back to the tedious personal stuff again and this ridiculous argument. Sigh.

FYI, I haven't eaten meat for at least 35 years. Am I entitled to an opinion on what can be a horrendously cruel and barbaric industry now or are only you allowed an opinion?

 

[Humberto]

I do like a vegan substitute. It's like everything now though: insurmountable.

 

[Funky_monks]

Re: Meat & Dairy and health:

"Dairy consumption was associated with lower risk of mortality and major cardiovascular disease events in a diverse multinational cohort."

2 servings of dairy a day associated with 32% lower cardiac events and 25% lower all cause mortality

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0140673618318129

"Here, we conducted a systematic review and implemented a meta-regression ......... to evaluate the relationships between unprocessed red meat consumption and six potential health outcomes. We found weak evidence of association between unprocessed red meat consumption and colorectal cancer, breast cancer, type 2 diabetes and ischemic heart disease. Moreover, we found no evidence of an association between unprocessed red meat and ischemic stroke or hemorrhagic stroke"

Health effects associated with consumption of unprocessed red meat: a Burden of Proof study - Nature Medicine

 

[WouldBe]

Re: Meat & Dairy and health:

"Dairy consumption was associated with lower risk of mortality and major cardiovascular disease events in a diverse multinational cohort."

2 servings of dairy a day associated with 32% lower cardiac events and 25% lower all cause mortality

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0140673618318129

"Here, we conducted a systematic review and implemented a meta-regression ......... to evaluate the relationships between unprocessed red meat consumption and six potential health outcomes. We found weak evidence of association between unprocessed red meat consumption and colorectal cancer, breast cancer, type 2 diabetes and ischemic heart disease. Moreover, we found no evidence of an association between unprocessed red meat and ischemic stroke or hemorrhagic stroke"

Health effects associated with consumption of unprocessed red meat: a Burden of Proof study - Nature Medicine

Not in "Vegans weekly" so not evidence.

 

[alfajobrob]

editor u have been made to look a right cock in this thread.

I actually am a veggie but you are an absolute disgrace by pulling up random articles that you refuse to discuss you do yourself or any cause a lack of favours

Well done butcher and funky monks for informative discourse.

 

[danny la rouge]

editor u have been made to look a right cock in this thread.

I actually am a veggie but you are an absolute disgrace by pulling up random articles that you refuse to discuss you do yourself or any cause a lack of favours

Well done butcher and funky monks for informative discourse.

editor please don’t ban this cock. That’s clearly what he wants.

 

[alfajobrob]

editor please don’t ban this cock. That’s clearly what he wants.

I think I have crossed the Rubicon already

 

[frogwoman]

I don’t really eat meat and would happily give up dairy if some of the vegan alternatives were not also disgusting, highly processed and potentially also terrible for the environment. I'm pretty sympathetic to the AR position tbh but just don't think the entire world giving up meat is feasible in the next few years and potentially ever. I'm really not convinced by 'alternatives' like eating insects which also throws up its own issues