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Bye bye MEAT! How will the post-meat future look?

How reluctant are you to give up your meat habit?

  • I’m already veggie or vegan as any right thinking person should be!

    Votes: 49 25.0%

  • I can take it or leave it, I won’t miss meat

    Votes: 31 15.8%

  • I’d give up meat if I could think what else to cook, but I can’t

    Votes: 7 3.6%

  • I’m reluctant to change, but I accept the need

    Votes: 34 17.3%

  • It’s unimaginable that I won’t have meat in most / all meals - I’ll probably starve

    Votes: 8 4.1%

  • Fuck the planet, I’ll be eating meat till I die or the planet explodes

    Votes: 6 3.1%

  • Poll fail, answer below

    Votes: 15 7.7%

  • Don’t believe the hype - meat will be available forever, nothing much will change

    Votes: 46 23.5%
  • Total voters
    196
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editor said:
Hmm, who to listen to? The groups of experts assembled by the United Nations or some zero qualified people posting under fake names on an internet forum?



www.unep.org

Novel meat and dairy alternatives could help curb climate-harming emissions - UN

Dubai, 8 December 2023 – Emerging novel alternatives to animal products such as meat and dairy may contribute to significantly reducing the environmental footprint of the current global food system, particularly in high- and middle-income countries, provided they use low-carbon energy. This is a...
www.unep.org www.unep.org
Click to expand...
"Provided they use low carbon energy" which most won't unless they have their own on site wind or solar farm.
 
WouldBe said:
"Provided they use low carbon energy" which most won't unless they have their own on site wind or solar farm.
Click to expand...
Nope.

Low-carbon energy is:
Energy generated from low-carbon sources such as wind, solar, hydro and nuclear power is better for the planet as it releases less carbon into the atmosphere.
Click to expand...

What is low-carbon energy?

Find out what low-carbon energy is and why it's important to invest in these types of renewable sources to help us move away from our reliance on gas.
www.edfenergy.com www.edfenergy.com
 
editor said:
There's no reason why I should have to put up with such personal abuse, and this is why you're staying on ignore. Bye.
Click to expand...
You have been constantly abusive towards me on this thread. :D Idiotic bollocks about my 'agenda'.

And here, you refuse to engage with 'zero qualified people posting under fake names on an internet forum'.

Like I said, a fucking joke.
 
Any industrial ultra-processed food production system is going to be plugged in to a national grid at various points. Switching those national grids over to low-carbon energy is the urgently needed solution we are looking for here. Which, funnily enough, is what some of us have been saying all along.
 
WouldBe said:
Correct but you have to be right next to it. Electricity always takes the shortest route so will always come from the nearest generator regardless of how it's powered.
Click to expand...
What do you think powers factory farms and all the other things needed for the production of meat and dairy? Magic electricity?
 
What's the issue here, meat and dairy or high-carbon energy? I think we can all agree that high-carbon energy is a problem. Looking at the numbers, I would argue that it is very clearly the problem.

Factory farms aren't needed for the production of meat and dairy, of course. A fair few of us on this thread have been consistently arguing for finding ways to end all factory farming.
 
editor said:
What do you think powers factory farms and all the other things needed for the production of meat and dairy? Magic electricity?
Click to expand...
That wasn't your argument and anyway a 'factory farm' probably still uses less electricity than it does to make plant based milk.
 
Funky_monks said:
Ah the old "zero qualified" academic who's literal subject this is....... 🫠

Also, imagine thinking the UN don't get lobbied........
Click to expand...
It's just a useless way of arguing on here. If someone comes up with a certain idea, you counter the idea. You don't just post a link and claim the authority of the link without engaging with the point raised.

It's fundamental to how people have to argue on here. Back up your arguments of course, but make your arguments. And engage with the arguments of others.

Editor does none of these things. It's incredibly tiresome. And call him out over it, and you'll be accused of personal abuse. I'm probably lucky I've not been banned. I'm on ignore? FFS.
 
I’d think if aliens landed on our planet and saw that the highest level inhabitants feed on the flesh of lower inhabitants, they’d be appalled
 
littlebabyjesus said:
:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:
Click to expand...
All the editor has asked is for us to consider eating “less meat” . The vociferous opposition he has had to endure has been saddening to me…

Is the consumption of flesh so ingrained in our species consciousness that we cannot discuss, in a friendly manner snd in a spirit of camaraderie doing otherwise?
 
bcuster said:
All the editor has asked is for us to consider eating “less meat” . The vociferous opposition he has had to endure has been saddening to me…

Is the consumption of flesh so ingrained in our species consciousness that we cannot discuss, in a friendly manner snd in a spirit of camaraderie doing otherwise?
Click to expand...
As I posted earlier - humans have been apex predators for about 2 million years.

And to say all he has asked is for us to "eat less meat" is bollocks, frankly.

Myself and others, especially those working within agriculture or seeking to explain why a simple "just do this" approach to food and the environment, which is extremely complex is extremely flawed on this thread have been subject to endless arrogant abuse. No respect whatsoever has been given to our viewpoints, which in my case have frequently been supported with peer reviewed academic sources and are based on a lifetime of work within agriculture and agricultural sciences.

Count the insults that have been levelled at me.
 
No, the Editor (whom I note also uses an anonymous id, and gets pretty snarky if you don't use his/her/their online id) asked:

How reluctant are you to give up your meat habit?​


Badly phrased as it is hardly a habit, more a natural base line condition of omnivorey.

Generally I have seen the most vituperative language coming from his quarter.
 
littlebabyjesus said:
It's not either/or, though, is it? It's not either rationalism or intuitionism. Strikes me that this is where moral philosophers tie themselves in knots. Eg Kant's categorical imperative (what if everyone acted like that?) is a handy go-to in thinking about our actions, but it's not foolproof. There aren't foolproof imperatives.
Click to expand...

That was my point, but in my interactions with you over the years you’ve tilted almost exclusively to intuitionism on this topic, you don’t seek to ground your pro-meat stance in any principles whatsoever, just what you feel is right. There are dangers in doing so for any topic. And there are many reasons to think we may be biased in our attitudes concerning animals in particular (e.g self-interest bias, social proof bias, status quo bias).

littlebabyjesus said:
ETA:

As for your counterexamples of the dangers of 'intuitionism', they're very questionable. In the 19th century, so-called 'scientific racism' arose as a reaction to the ending of slavery. These ideas were formulated by some of the most influential thinkers of their day, many rightly forgotten now like Herbert Spencer. In the 1850s, Spencer was probably Britain's most famous public intellectual. He thought he was being uber-rational. I'd be far less charitable and say that his theorising and that of others came as a result of a gut desire to show the supremacy of the white race in order to justify the ongoing subjugation of freed slaves and their children. Those theories came in direct contradiction to the readily available intuitions that human races are equal, which have been felt by many people in many different times and places.
Click to expand...

Again, that was kind of my point. The gut feeling we have about all sorts of things doesn’t exist in a vacuum - it’s the product of our environment, of our culture, and often reflects prevailing relations and structure of power in society. That's why its worth questioning how and why we feel the things we do and whether they're justified. We live in a society where the terms ‘cow’, ‘pig’, ‘sheep’ and ‘chicken’ are all literally insults and their exploitation and killing are all utterly routine. You think it’s worth repeatedly impregnating and then stealing the children of cows so you can steal their milk? You think gassing pigs with c02 that causes their insides to burn is fine so you can have a pig flesh sandwich? You think throwing baby male chicks into grinders so you can have an omelette is fine? Of course you do, your culture tells you it’s fine. (And no, this is not a caricature of what you say, you have defended all of these things and of course in a practical sense you think they’re fine because you’re happy to pay for them even though you live in a city and have zero need to).
 
butcher said:
No, the Editor (whom I note also uses an anonymous id, and gets pretty snarky if you don't use his/her/their online id) asked:
Click to expand...
It's very very easy to work out my real ID and home address, something that has caused me serious problems in the past (as in death threats, DOXing, work problems and more).

So there's damn good reasons why I ask people to only use my online ID here and see no reason why I shouldn't expect the same level of privacy and security as everyone else enjoys.

And I've written the phrase "less meat" over 70 times in this thread, so I've been consistent throughout.
 
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