Study suggests that cats may get health benefits from vegan diet

[teuchter]

Yes it is mad - the concept of perpetuating an industry that creates artificially high numbers of this animal buy buying a cat is even madder.

For vegans/vegetarians who don't have a moral objection to the killing of animals for food or sport, why is it mad to partake in the creation of "artificially high" numbers of cats?

 

[skyscraper101]

I always start from the basis of anything which contributes to less meat production and consumption is good for the planet and therefore a good thing. Humans, cats, whatever.

My only concern is more around the health aspects of ultra-processed foods. And that applies to both meat and vegan. But this is nothing new, and not what this is about.. As the guardian article points out, the nutrients lost through processing can be added back in through supplements and are already done so in processed meat products anyway so as long as cats get enough other stuff like fibre and vegan alternatives aren't loaded with too much salt or any other crap which is bad for cats, then I don't see what's not to like.

 

[teuchter]

Kind of the point in PloS One is that it accepts a broad range of studies from... all the disciplines, so long as they 'contribute to the scientific literature'. They're not always good contributions (and they've had some significant issues at times), but if the methodology is clearly described and the analysis is coherent, they may still get published. So a study with a pretty crap data source (which I think this is) may still be interesting to someone provided those issues are clearly described in the paper (which they are).

The point (as I understand it) is also that unlike traditional journals it's open access (you don't have to pay to read the papers it publishes) and non-profit.

It means that those writing the papers pay to submit, rather than those who want to read them. The idea is that the cost of the admin of peer-review and publication is factored into the budget of whatever research is being carried out.

Traditional journals are profit making commercial operations, which rely on the free labour of peer-reviewers. Open access journals also rely on free labour from peer-reviewers but don't seek to profit commercially from it.

 

[Cid]

The point (as I understand it) is also that unlike traditional journals it's open access (you don't have to pay to read the papers it publishes) and non-profit.

It means that those writing the papers pay to submit, rather than those who want to read them. The idea is that the cost of the admin of peer-review and publication is factored into the budget of whatever research is being carried out.

Traditional journals are profit making commercial operations, which rely on the free labour of peer-reviewers. Open access journals also rely on free labour from peer-reviewers but don't seek to profit commercially from it.

Yeah, it's a very worthwhile project, but has had some setbacks along the way. Reforming journal publishing not that easy.

The other key thing is that they don't use significance as a criteria, so will publish null results, failed replications etc.

 

[Chz]

Research journals and the ethics around them is worthy of its own 6+ page thread, to be honest. Academia is a cesspit.

 

[pbsmooth]

sad to see gluten-free cats being ignored again.

 

[Pickman's model]

sad to see gluten-free cats being ignored again.

i understand all cats are gluten free, which is a large selling point in those restaurants and eateries where people devour them

 

[andysays]

Not sure who "thinks that urban75 should be in favour of the Royal Family".

But yes we should have some empathy for people who find it difficult to change old-fashioned views and assumptions.

What about some empathy for ordinary cats who find it difficult to change their views and assumptions?

 

[Pickman's model]

Traditional journals are profit making commercial operations, which rely on the free labour of peer-reviewers.

the free labour of the people who write the articles is perhaps a larger issue, not to mention the costs incurred by the institutions where they work who buy back the articles publishers get for free for a vast sum of money

 

[Pickman's model]

What about some empathy for ordinary cats who find it difficult to change their views and assumptions?

teuchter has no empathy, for cats or for people. he demands others show what he cannot provide.

 

[Pickman's model]

For vegans/vegetarians who don't have a moral objection to the killing of animals for food or sport, why is it mad to partake in the creation of "artificially high" numbers of cats?

partake is one of those words for which a week's ban - if not longer - should be handed out

 

[editor]

For clarity PloS One is legit, but it's something to be a bit wary of using as a layperson. Kind of the point in PloS One is that it accepts a broad range of studies from... all the disciplines, so long as they 'contribute to the scientific literature'. They're not always good contributions (and they've had some significant issues at times), but if the methodology is clearly described and the analysis is coherent, they may still get published. So a study with a pretty crap data source (which I think this is) may still be interesting to someone provided those issues are clearly described in the paper (which they are).

Put another way anyone basing a decision on their pet's nutrition on a single study with a sample size of ±100 which specifically targeted vegan pet owners on facebook and uses self-reported data is a fucking idiot. But it's still quite an interesting study that may justify further research.

Which is the point I made right at the start: "if healthy, affordable non-meat cat food goes mainstream, I'd definitely buy it (subject to more research):"

 

[A380]

Why stop at foxes and badgers? To make things easier maybe they could fit an electroshock device to urban posters that gives the poster a nasty shock when they're tempted to post bollocks.

National Grid would need to massively increase the grid capacity to support that, could take years.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

The other key thing is that they don't use significance as a criteria, so will publish null results, failed replications etc.

Yeah, this is really important. I agree that academic publishing needs reforming and plos one has its place. It's just that poorly designed studies that don't reach any meaningful conclusions can be jumped on by the unwitting.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Which is the point I made right at the start: "if healthy, affordable non-meat cat food goes mainstream, I'd definitely buy it (subject to more research):"

And yet you didn't mention any of the study's many drawbacks and have thrown your toys out of the pram because others have done so.

If you uncritically post up low-quality research, this is what you should expect. It's actually an example of Urban75 working. We're doing your journalistic due diligence for you.

 

[Storm Fox]

Just having a quick google, taurine can be obtained from seaweed.

Number seven on the list.

• Seaweed. Because most taurine sources are from animals, seaweed is an excellent option for people on a plant-based diet. Nori, the papery-like seaweed product used in making sushi, has up to 1,300 milligrams of taurine per 100 grams. While we don’t eat that much in a single sitting, sprinkling a sheet of nori into a dish or eating it with sushi can add about 40 milligrams of taurine to your meal.

So if cats are fed a vegan diet, with seaweed mixed in, you may be good if there are no other nutritional items that can only be obtained from meat. Still, there may be another chemical in seaweed that is toxic to cats as cats seem to be susceptible to a lot of foods we think are fine.

 

[Funky_monks]

Yeah, this is really important. I agree that academic publishing needs reforming and plos one has its place. It's just that poorly designed studies that don't reach any meaningful conclusions can be jumped on by the unwitting.

Which is why critical analysis is especially important.

"A study" means diddly squat

 

[Pickman's model]

Just having a quick google, taurine can be obtained from seaweed.



So if cats are fed a vegan diet, with seaweed mixed in, you may be good if there are no other nutritional items that can only be obtained from meat. Still, there may be another chemical in seaweed that is toxic to cats as cats seem to be susceptible to a lot of foods we think are fine.

another alternative is to give cats red bull to drink

 

[MickiQ]

I know that. But I didn't think any species but humans killed for sport -- that even when it looks like that to us, they're honing their hunting skills or responding to a threat, even if the threat isn't real. And hey, it's dolphins. Aren't they the good guys?

Cats kill for the fun of it, my daughter's cat likes to catch mice alive and release them in the kitchen where they can't escape without getting past it. It likes to torment them for a bit before killing them.
She says he gets annoyed with her when she picks him up while her husband tries to catch the mouse and get it outside.

 

[teuchter]

Yeah, it's a very worthwhile project, but has had some setbacks along the way. Reforming journal publishing not that easy.

The other key thing is that they don't use significance as a criteria, so will publish null results, failed replications etc.

To be clear, this is a deliberate policy to try and reduce one of the main biases that can affect academic research, though, right?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Cats kill the fun for it, my daughter's cat likes to catch mice alive and release them in the kitchen where they can't escape without getting past it. It likes to torment them for a bit before killing them.
She says he gets annoyed with her when she picks him up while her husband tries to catch the mouse and get it outside.

For better or worse, I used to leave my cat to it when he did this. The mice generally die of heart attacks. They are literally scared stiff.

 

[teuchter]

Cats kill the fun for it, my daughter's cat likes to catch mice alive and release them in the kitchen where they can't escape without getting past it. It likes to torment them for a bit before killing them.

This is not the cat's fault though, it's yours. If you had not created your daughter the mice would not be suffering.

 

[MickiQ]

This is not the cat's fault though, it's yours. If you had not created your daughter the mice would not be suffering.

Middle (the cat owning one) was born on the 25th Sept the unexpected (but welcomed) result of a drunken night of passion the preceding New Years Eve when her mother and I threw contraception and caution to the winds. Surely the blame lies with the breweries.

 

[teuchter]

Middle (the cat owning one) was born on the 25th Sept the unexpected (but welcomed) result of a drunken night of passion the preceding New Years Eve when her mother and I threw contraception and caution to the winds. Surely the blame lies with the breweries.

I think we can all agree that if the nation's breweries were converted to vegan catfood research centres, the benefits would be substantial.

 

[ElizabethofYork]

I think we can all agree that if the nation's breweries were converted to vegan catfood research centres, the benefits would be substantial.

Particularly Brewdog.

 

[platinumsage]

I wouldn't say cats "kill for the fun of it". It's more that they're so hardwired to react to small moving flappy squeaky things that they really can't help themselves. It's just a symptom of them having evolved to be such efficient predators. They only need to hunt for a small fraction of the day, and spend so much time lazing around that a tempting prey target is just a way for them to get their wiggles out.

 

[skyscraper101]

Particularly Brewdog.

And rename it Brewcat.

 

[Cid]

To be clear, this is a deliberate policy to try and reduce one of the main biases that can affect academic research, though, right?

Yes, absolutely.

 

[UnderOpenSky]

Has anyone asked the cats what they think about being put on a vegan diet?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Nah, cats do it for the fun of it. They have certainly evolved to have fun killing things but that doesn't mean they're not having fun.