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burma - potential uprising?

frogwoman said:
it doesn't work unfortunately - it says it's forbidden. dont worry bout it :)
I am worried! It's just amazing this thread has gone on for so long without a People's Desire sign.
teqniq said:
Nope. Forbidden. - But I can download it
If you would :)
 
35654481.myanmar_0_mandalay_020_IMG_5729_crop.jpg


lmao ... Is this it?

If so - fucking hell :rolleyes:
 
ymu said:
Anything has to be better than this? What's happened to Hong Kong since the handover? (I genuinely don't know - just wondering). And if China prefers not to intervene, will it care if the democracy movement gets its way - especially with all eyes on Burma? Again, I have no idea - I don't know enough about Chinese internal politics. I've only really followed their progress on the "world stage".
Perhaps you're right. And if the momentum on Burma can be kept up on world bodies, and in the public through petitions, protests etc perhaps it is possible that China's embarrassment will cause it to slowly alter its stance. Maybe I'm being too cynical when I think the world will turn away now the graphic events are over.

Getting my hopes up again :rolleyes:
 
News blackout does not equal defeat. That's why they cut the internet and banned the journalists. Stay determined frogster! C'mon - Grrrrr! a few times and get back to posting stuff! :)
 
frogwoman said:
35654481.myanmar_0_mandalay_020_IMG_5729_crop.jpg


lmao ... Is this it?

If so - fucking hell :rolleyes:
that's the one. That one's in Mandalay. There's also one a hundred yards or so from ASSK's house, and one near Trader's Hotel in downtown Rgn.

There are lots around in Burmese, translating to something like 'The Tatmadaw [military] is the father of the nation' and 'With blood and sweat, the Tatmadaw will never give up representation of the Myanmar people'

Very Soviet, very sad.
 
purves grundy said:
A world apart in meaning, and I'd got myself very excited.
Still, gotta start somewhere eh? :)

You don't half make it hard to stay positive. Now, where's that indymedia article? :mad: ;)
 
ymu said:
You don't half make it hard to stay positive. Now, where's that indymedia article? :mad: ;)
I'm on 'freshers settings' :oops: until tomorrow. Can't do anything except interweb. Be flowing over to you after registration tomorrow. I hope it's not superfluous - I mean, it's just background and events, nothing flash-harry :confused:

I do feel slightly better today. A bit because I haven't heard what Gambari's had to say yet and no news is good news; although I'm not expecting anything substantial, the pressure is coming at them from all sides now, and ratchet effects and all that.

Speaking to 'them' earlier helped too, being able to tell them that the whole world is still watching and pushing. They want armed intervention now, they want to see the junta and their cronies shot to fuckery. Well that's not gonna happen, but maybe change is closer than it might appear.

G'night!
 
They're off their fuking rockers aren't they? It's just surreal. Completely impossible to understand from here. Christ.


purves grundy said:
I'm on 'freshers settings' until tomorrow. Can't do anything except interweb. Be flowing over to you after registration tomorrow. I hope it's not superfluous - I mean, it's just background and events, nothing flash-harry

I do feel slightly better today. A bit because I haven't heard what Gambari's had to say yet and no news is good news; although I'm not expecting anything substantial, the pressure is coming at them from all sides now, and ratchet effects and all that.

Speaking to 'them' earlier helped too, being able to tell them that the whole world is still watching and pushing. They want armed intervention now, they want to see the junta and their cronies shot to fuckery. Well that's not gonna happen, but maybe change is closer than it might appear.

G'night!

That's the ticket! :)

And remember they have at least two large ethnic armies (KNU and SSA) behind them, repeated messages of solidarity and love from the ethnic groups all over Burma, and at least 3 Burmese regiments have mutinied, and the Karenni leader yesterday - that's YESTERDAY - called on the splinter-group Karenni army and - AND - the Burmese soldiers who have been slaughtering the Karenni and other ethnic peoples to join them on the basis that they are every bit as oppressed as the rest of Burma.

That's HUGE - it really is. Christ, the mainstream media is still running stories warning of civil war if the uprising wins. Ignorant assumption-making fuckwits. If only we had such humanity, not to mention plain common sense in the West...Fuck, they're amazing. No way are we giving up yet!
 
It would seem that anone hoping for China to put serious pressure on the Burmese junta is maybe a little too optomistic:
Dissenters arrested and beaten in China
By Clifford Coonan in Beijing
Published: 03 October 2007
Human rights activists, free speech advocates, campaigning lawyers and political writers have been arrested and tortured as Chinese police crack down on dissent ahead of this month's Communist Party congress, campaigners said yesterday.

Independent
 
In this part of the world, authoritarianism is rife. Burma, china, thailand, singapore, laos, vietnam (i think), north korea, even south korea. Mix in traditional conservatism, and we have the background context to events now going on in burma.

Therefore this is why ASEAN never interfere with each other, certainly not for the benefit of the mere people.

Therefore china will never intervene to remove the brutal regime running burma.

The only thing that makes any of these men act is loss of face. Image is all, and their image of themselves is paramount. As soon as it is under threat they do all they can to return it to normalcy. Face is all. Democracy and development only occurs according to the intersection between the people's desires and potential loss of face. A bit simplistic perhaps, but the point i want to make is this:

If the UN was serious about boycotting the olympics next year, and made this apparant NOW, and china perceived that the threat of a completely destroyed 2008 games was real, they would act immediately over burma.

I used to always read back in britain when i was growing up (ie the boycotted games in russia back in 1980 i think) that politics should be kept out of sport. Well, that is preferable for sure, but keeping brutal regimes like the burmese one out of humanity is infinitely more important.

We wouldn't even need to rely upon our leaders to threaten the boycott, we could get all expected participants in the games, all the athletes and so on, to say they will not be going to china... a personal sacrifice perhaps, but not with their lives.

If you want china to act, get them to think the olympics will be a no go...
 
Got this e-mail through from the avaaz.org (global citizen's community). Fucking superb!


382721.jpg



Dear friends,

Our emergency petition to stop the crackdown on peaceful protesters in Burma is exploding, with nearly 500,000 signers from every nation of the world. But the situation in Burma remains desperate, with reports of hundreds of monks being massacred and tortured. Burma's rulers have also killed and expelled international journalists, cutting off global media coverage of their cruelty.

China is still the key - the country with the most power to halt the Burmese generals' reign of terror. We're delivering our message this week with a massive ad campaign in major newspapers, beginning with a full page ad in the Financial Times worldwide tomorrow, and in the South China Morning Post on Thursday. The strength of the ad comes from the number of petition signers listed – can we reach our goal of 1 million signatures this week? The link to sign the petition and view the ad is below, forward this email to all your friends and family!

http://www.avaaz.org/en/stand_with_burma/u.php

China continues to provide key economic and military support to Burma's dictatorship, but it has been openly critical of the crackdown. Now we need the government to match words with actions. Our ad paints a powerful moment of choice for China in its relationship with the world – will it be a responsible and respected member of the global community, or will it be associated with tyranny and oppression?

People power, on the streets of Burma, and around the world, can triumph over tyranny. Our strength is in our numbers, spread the word!

With hope and determination,

Ricken, Paul, Ben, Graziela, Pascal, Galit and the whole Avaaz team.

For the best local reporting on the situation in Burma, try these links:

http://www.irrawaddy.org

http://www.mizzima.com
 
An illustrative summary about the impotence and selfishness of the world's political leaders in this article.

"As the Burmese military brutally cracks down on a popular citizen uprising demanding democracy the question on many minds is—so what is the world going to do about it?

From the trend visible so far the answer is simple—nothing at all."



http://www.irrawaddy.org/article.php?art_id=8848
 
teqniq said:
Courtesy of purves grundy:

35654481.myanmar_0_mandalay_020_IMG_5729_crop.jpg
I remember these from my visit there. There's another common one that's even more sinister - about how the Tatmadaw (the military) care so much for the people and how the people should love the Tatmadaw in return (I'm paraphrasing but it's along those lines). Have you got a photo of one of those?
 
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/rtrs/20071003/tts-uk-myanmar-ca02f96_4.html

YANGON (Reuters) - Burma's junta released 80 monks rounded up last week in a crackdown on the biggest anti-government protests in nearly 20 years, one of those freed said on Wednesday.

The monk, in his mid-20s but too nervous to give any more details of his identity, said he and 79 brethren were returned to their Mingala Yama monastery in Yangon shortly after midnight.

The remaining 16 of 96 arrested during a raid on the monastery -- among hundreds arrested in similar raids on at least 15 Yangon monasteries -- were expected to be freed soon, he said.

The monk said they had been held at a former government technical institute in northern Yangon's Insein district, and been subjected to verbal -- but not physical -- abuse during interrogation. Detainees had received two meals a day, he said.
 
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article2577680.ece

As demonstrations mounted in Rangoon and the military prepared for a crackdown, an agonising decision loomed for Major Htay Win. The soldier, who has fought ethnic rebels for 21 years, knew that he would be executed if he refused to shoot demonstrators. But as a devout Buddhist he was convinced he would burn in Hell if he killed the monks.

Faced with an impossible choice he deserted, fleeing through the jungle to join his old enemies, the Karen guerrillas, who smuggled him into Thailand.

Major Htay, 43, one of the first Burmese officers to flee since the crackdown, now faces an uncertain future. Although he is seeking sanctuary in Norway, he fears that the Thai authorities will send him back to a firing squad or that he will fall victim to vengeful Burmese assassins.

Speaking through his 17-year-old son at a safe house in the border town of Mae Sot, Major Htay said yesterday that he decided to desert a week ago because he knew an order to shoot monks was imminent. “I am a Buddhist as well as a soldier. I could see what was going to happen when the demonstrations started growing.

“There were secret codes to start shooting monks. But for a Buddhist this is a terrible crime. Monks are the sons of Buddha. For shooting them you would burn in Hell for eternity.”

The account Major Htay gave The Times was of an angry and divided army, horrified at being forced to crush protesters they broadly sympathised with, but also fearful of the hard-core of officers loyal to Than Shwe, Burma’s military leader.

He was with the 99 Division in Rangoon when the protests started. He could not confirm reports that hundreds of monks had been buried in the jungle. He deserted before the killings started and said that his only knowledge of casualties was from dissident radio reports. “I am just the first who will come to Thailand,” he said. “There are many officers like me who are deeply unhappy. They didn’t want to kill the monks. Many officers are also angry because the Burmese people are hungry.”

He claimed that many sympathise with Aung San Suu Kyi, Burma’s jailed pro-democracy leader. “The problem is that they are afraid of Than Shwe. He is so cruel,” he said.

“I am sure officers must have refused their orders to shoot monks. They will themselves be shot — it will happen in a prison and we will never hear about it. If I went back to Burma, I would be executed by them without a moment’s thought.”

Even in Thailand the risk to his life remains real. In the last year about five exiled Burmese dissidents among Mae Sot’s expatriate community have been kidnapped, by bounty hunters it is believed, and returned to an uncertain fate inside Burma.

Although aware that his actions may have put his family in danger, Major Htay said that he had no choice but to flee. He refused to allow his face to be pictured to make it harder for assassins to identify him.

Of the officers who were loyal to the junta, he said: “There are two reasons for loyalty; they become rich from business, and they are afraid of being killed for disobedience. But in their hearts many of them loathe Than Shwe’s cruelty and they are with the people. I haven’t heard of soldiers mutinying, but it could happen.

“Than Shwe will try to hang on to power, but I believe this time next year he will be gone. There are other soldiers who want his power.”

None of his colleagues believed the regime’s claim that protesters were in league with foreign powers. “They know that is bulls**t. The generals just want to cling on to power,” he said.

After escaping from Rangoon, Major Htay made contact with Colonel Nerdah Mya, of the Karen National Liberation Army, and Dr Hans Schilde, a Norwegian activist.

Colonel Nerdah said that his men were preparing to welcome other defectors in the mountainous jungles along the border with Thailand.

Burma’s Army, according to several accounts, is increasingly disgruntled and has high desertion rates, especially among lower ranks, who are often recruited from petty criminals, orphans and the destitute.

Khun Saing, a dissident in Mae Sot, got to know jailed soldiers during his 13 years in the regime’s prisons. He said: “Many of them had been forced to shoot their friends, especially for desertion. The Army is run by fear.”

Many of the loyal officers are graduates of the old British hill station of Maymyo, Burma’s Sandhurst, where high-fliers are sent. They are always from the majority Burman ethnic group and sons of officers.

:(
 
teqniq said:
Burma's ailing Prime Minister Lt-Gen Soe Win has died at the military hospital in Mingalardon, Rangoon on Tuesday, sources said.
He's been a zombie for a long time now, but it's good to see the cunt gone. Burn in hell.

Very interesting article that, Frogwoman. It confirms our worst thoughts, but also gives various points for the opposition to work on. Bumping off Than Shwe? Not that it hasn't been considered before... A massive cash injection from 'donors' to buy off large sections of the army / USDA? That could bring problems but...


None of his colleagues believed the regime’s claim that protesters were in league with foreign powers. “They know that is bulls**t. The generals just want to cling on to power,” he said.
Something to quote to the conspiraloons. But then they'd go, "Well he would say that."


Burma finding glimmers of optimism as the shock lessens and the anger begins to translate itself into... well, let's see.
 
Burma terror begins as junta starts hunting down marchers

RANGOON
Burma's junta has launched a brutal campaign of dragging people from their homes at night and letting others know they were marked for detention after crushing a pro-democracy uprising with guns.

Military vehicles patrolled the streets of the main city of Rangoon before dawn yesterday with loudspeakers blaring: "We have photographs. We are going to make arrests."

People living near the Shwedagon Pagoda, a flashpoint of unrest, reported police had swept through several dozen homes at about 3am, dragging away many men for questioning.
advertisement

A UN Development Programme employee, Myint Nwe Moe, her husband, brother-in-law and driver were among those taken away by police, the UN agency confirmed.

"People are terrified," said Shari Villarosa, acting US ambassador. "People have been unhappy for a long time. Since the events of last week, there's now the unhappiness combined with anger, and fear."

Buddhist monks in Rangoon were ordered to leave their monasteries - flashpoints of last week's protests - and go home to prevent unrest.

Scores of monks jammed Rangoon's main train station but it was not clear who had ordered them to leave. Some in Burma say the older abbots are closely tied with the junta, while the younger monks are more sympathetic to the democracy protesters.

More: http://www.theherald.co.uk/news/foreign/display.var.1734095.0.0.php
 
frogwoman said:
blogger's strike today
maybe I'm missing something here, but how exactly is a load of bloggers who presumably sympathetic to the burma struggle stopping blogging for a day going to help the situation:confused:
 
ymu said:
The idea is that they all put one of the Free Burma banners up for the day and nowt else. It'll come through on all the blog feeds. :)

http://bbwob.blogspot.com/2007/10/international-bloggers-day-for-burma-on.html

yeah I've got one up on our site now, but at a time when the burmese military is desperately trying to shut down all media outlets for news on what's going on in burma, it just seems to be playing into their hands to be effectively shutting down most of the sympathetic blogs for a day.

There could be some logic behind this somewhere, but I can't see it.
 
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