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Buffy the Vampire Slayer

kabbes said:
I don’t buy the premise that it makes sense for only the final wish to be reversed. Yes, they were in the post-wish universe, but that was still also the universe of all the other wishes too. On top of that, Anya lost her powers back in the original universe as well as the wish one. She lost ALL her powers.
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A wizard did it.

Or The Hellmouth. It exerts a force that drags certain people towards it. It is the reason that Buffy is always within spitting distance of numerous threats to the world. She didn't end up there by chance. It took a wish aimed at Buffy to get her away and she still turns up. All of the main cast are still knocking about in the new reality. After the point the old reality appears to be restored events are mentioned that we haven't seen and many you'd think significant never mentioned again. Spike's sire changes for example. Any changes outside of that main group wouldn't be apparent either. .
 
kabbes said:
I don’t buy the premise that it makes sense for only the final wish to be reversed. Yes, they were in the post-wish universe, but that was still also the universe of all the other wishes too. On top of that, Anya lost her powers back in the original universe as well as the wish one. She lost ALL her powers.
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I'd say it's logical that a magical amulet can be made so that it makes the bearer into a vengeance demon, but if it's destroyed in some way, only the most recent wish is undone. It would have been made by some sort of sentient being, after all, it's not just something that grew naturally.
 
That episode is on tonight. Instead of an early night I'll be taking notes. The one before was a favourite of a mate and I when we were teenagers. Spike at his best.
 
kabbes said:
I don’t buy the premise that it makes sense for only the final wish to be reversed. Yes, they were in the post-wish universe, but that was still also the universe of all the other wishes too. On top of that, Anya lost her powers back in the original universe as well as the wish one. She lost ALL her powers.
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Would it be something to do with some demon stuff being based on contracts?
I have a vague idea that the other vengeance demon storylines hint at that.
So, the smashing of the amulet annuls the wish contract that the person breaking the amulet wants annulled.
😕
:hmm:
 
We have continued on season 6 and had the utter delight of seeing the magnificent Normal Again again. A postmodern tease of an episode that is either meaningless or makes a mockery of the whole premise of the show. But it’s fucking great.

And then continued till ‘bored now.’ Which is excellent storytelling. I never got the death of Tara being appalling and wrong thing. Amber Benson may have been mistreated as an actor, but her death in series makes perfect dramatic sense, even if the trajectory is more ludicrous than JFK.

There are two episodes left but only had time for one, so had to go with The Wish. Spookily, willow has just appeared and her first words are ‘bored now’ !

I’ll be back soon to tell kabbes why he is wrong. The Bronze is currently playing much better music than normal.
 
Well there are two necklaces I think. The one around Anya's neck that Giles smashes and the one Cordelia around hers that has Anya's symbol on it.
 
If you are interested to know what about the show still doesn't add up for me, its Xander leaving Anya at the alter.
I know he's a doofus and a little boy most of the time but a. I don't buy that he'd belive the "I'm you from the future" things, he's been around the Sunnydale block too much for that and b. I think if he was that much of a coward he'd marry Anya and then either be miserable or tell her rather than running away from the wedding.
 
Am watching The Wish now on 4+1, even though I have them all on my pc at home, but I'm at my parents so adverts it is :facepalm:
 
CNT36 said:
Well there are two necklaces I think. The one around Anya's neck that Giles smashes and the one Cordelia around hers that has Anya's symbol on it.
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There are. Cordelia’s disappears with her, but presumably Anya’s regenerates when she returns to... home.

Giles does explicitly say “one must destroy her powercenter. This should reverse all the wishes she has granted, rendering her mortal and powerless again.”

Of course Giles has been known to be wrong.

What other wishes do we actually know were granted? Anya does say that the effects of this one are much bigger than normal. Boils on penises are mentioned at some point. Of course it is implied she started the Russian revolution, but only the 1905 one, so no great loss. But that’s not till season 7 so we’re not there yet.
 
belboid said:
There are. Cordelia’s disappears with her, but presumably Anya’s regenerates when she returns to... home.

Giles does explicitly say “one must destroy her powercenter. This should reverse all the wishes she has granted, rendering her mortal and powerless again.”

Of course Giles has been known to be wrong.

What other wishes do we actually know were granted? Anya does say that the effects of this one are much bigger than normal. Boils on penises are mentioned at some point. Of course it is implied she started the Russian revolution, but only the 1905 one, so no great loss. But that’s not till season 7 so we’re not there yet.
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Yes maybe all normal rules are off because of, you, know, the hellmouth.
 
belboid said:
There are. Cordelia’s disappears with her, but presumably Anya’s regenerates when she returns to... home.

Giles does explicitly say “one must destroy her powercenter. This should reverse all the wishes she has granted, rendering her mortal and powerless again.”

Of course Giles has been known to be wrong.

What other wishes do we actually know were granted? Anya does say that the effects of this one are much bigger than normal. Boils on penises are mentioned at some point. Of course it is implied she started the Russian revolution, but only the 1905 one, so no great loss. But that’s not till season 7 so we’re not there yet.
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Fair point about the all the wishes being reversed

Troll boyfriend wasn't a wish, it was the spell that got her offered the vengeance demon thing, and the Russian revolution was with another vengeance demon, so maybe that stands 😕
 
Even if the other wishes being reversed don’t themselves change history (which I seriously doubt), it still leaves the fact that c. 2000, Anya would not be a vengeance demon since she has no powers, which means she wouldn’t be in Sunnydale to grant Cordelia’s wish. So she wouldn’t meet Xander at all.

Xander didn’t leave Anya at the alter because he actually believed he’d truly met his future self, by the way. It was because he had doubts anyway and having seen the nightmare future vision, he believed it really could end up that way. Xander’s fucking about with first Cordelia and then Anya sure does cause a lot of chaos so who knows, maybe he had a point.

I agree that Tara had to die when she did. It made for an amazing plotline. And the fact that three incels ended up being amongst the worst the Scoobies had to deal with has a poignant resonance that fits with the whole “the real world is the big bad” theme.
 
kabbes said:
Even if the other wishes being reversed don’t themselves change history (which I seriously doubt), it still leaves the fact that c. 2000, Anya would not be a vengeance demon since she has no powers, which means she wouldn’t be in Sunnydale to grant Cordelia’s wish. So she wouldn’t meet Xander at all.
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No, no, no, no, no. The text is quite specific, it will reverse her spells and leave her trapped in the present. She isn’t transported back to when she was a vengeance demon (I was going to abbreviate that initially, but decided against it) she’s just stuck here now. D’Hoffryn is (spoiler, sorry) quite specific about it, he is the one who is pulling all the chains.


I agree that Tara had to die when she did. It made for an amazing plotline. And the fact that three incels ended up being amongst the worst the Scoobies had to deal with has a poignant resonance that fits with the whole “the real world is the big bad” theme.
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Yes, yes, yes, yes , yes. And this is why Normal Again is the best episode, it explains all this brilliantly. Having had to justify being a middle aged man watching teen girls kick arse I had already used this basic rationalisation as to why the series is great and it’s not just about watching buffy in tight leather pants (thankfully, my questioners never knew about Faith). Seeing an episode that explicitly justified my rationale was marvellous, positively jump for joy material.
 
Which “present” is she left trapped in though? The necklace was destroyed the day after she granted Cordelia’s wish, yet it all returned to her at the point she was trying to grant it.

Why does this magical universe not make perfect logical sense?
 
That makes sense to me. If she is to be trapped in the present it makes sense that it follows the most recent wish. Where else would she go?
 
I'm watching for the first time. Doesn't the sudden appearance of a sister who lives in the same house as buffy and her mum maybe lack a little bit of sense?

While I realise this is chronologically incorrect, from my viewpoint buffy is a teen angsty rip off version of Grimm. #controversial
 
My bug bear (but I maintain my suspended disbelief even though it irritates me) is the inconsistency with the Spike/Dru/Angel/Darla back story. It's implied that both angel and dru are spike's sire at different points. Plus how many times does Darla have to die? The final final dusting was BADASS though. Such a shame Connor turned out so shit :D and the accents need to die in a fire.

But i still love it and quimcunx is wrong :mad:
 
quimcunx said:
I'm watching for the first time. Doesn't the sudden appearance of a sister who lives in the same house as buffy and her mum maybe lack a little bit of sense?

While I realise this is chronologically incorrect, from my viewpoint buffy is a teen angsty rip off version of Grimm. #controversial
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This again. If you'd paid attention you'd know exactly who she is.
 
Rebelda said:
My bug bear (but I maintain my suspended disbelief even though it irritates me) is the inconsistency with the Spike/Dru/Angel/Darla back story. It's implied that both angel and dru are spike's sire at different points. Plus how many times does Darla have to die? The final final dusting was BADASS though. Such a shame Connor turned out so shit :D and the accents need to die in a fire.
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Its not inconsistent it's down to Giles fucking history up in the wish.
 
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