Buffy the Vampire Slayer

[JTG]

Quite so. I thought the way grief and emotional torment were treated throughout the show was brilliant - Willow's abandonment by Oz, Buffy's loss of her mother, Tara's death and its effect on Willow, even Anya's abandonment at the altar by Xander. They weren't just encountered and then overcome in an episode or two, they became part of the very fabric of the show's plots and the basis for the eventual redemption of several characters

Forgot to mention Giles' very real affection for all the Scoobies but especially Buffy and the moments of real emotion/anguish that resulted from that. Brilliantly written and portrayed more often than not

She grew on me slightly - in the last season there was scope for some funny moments (with Andrew....ANDREW ) but I think for those of us (i.e. me) who were are a bit entrenched in the Buffy universe (ahem ) shoehorning her in was an affront. Being able to step back it was a huge and clever risk that Whedon took (and I suspect he took it partly for the sake of being clever, which is why I love him). He is the master of meta

I agree with that. On the subject of Andrew, in a final season which became increasingly dark and serious he provided genuine and not annoying at all light relief. He could easily have been annoying but turned out OK

 

[JTG]

Would it be worth watching now if you hadn't seen it at the time?

Absolutely. Start from the beginning and stick with it

 

[Fez909]

Yes

OK, cheers. It will be started once I've finished Orange is the New Black. I'll leave the thread now so I don't learn any more about it.

Have a good thread

 

[Lord Camomile]

I thought Tara was great. Why all the hate for the decent characters ? Because they aren't badass? She became the conscience of the show and a sort of maternal character to the gang after Buffy's mother died. Her relationship with Willow on. Prime time series was pretty groundbreaking and I liked that actress. There was a lot of warmth she brought to that character.

No, not because she wasn't 'badass', I just didn't find her interesting at all. Every time she was in a scene she sucked all the energy out of it. She wasn't funny, she wasn't complex, she was just meh.

I'll admit, I haven't really watched any of it since it first aired, so perhaps things will have changed, but at the time I was constantly hoping she'd be written out. Then when she was, it all rang hollow because I couldn't believe someone getting that upset about a wet blanket like Tara.

 

[Rebelda]

Oh c'mon! She was dull and mopey and had very little to offer. What on earth someone like Willow was doing with her I have no idea.

you take that back. For one thing the musical episode would have been crap without her I liked her earthy-ness. The episode when we meet her family and find out she thinks she's a demon and Spike punches her was brilliant! I also empathised greatly with her social awkwardness. 'Just trying a little spicy talk'

Unlike the awful slayerette Willow hooks up with in the last season. Ugh.

 

[JTG]

Oh c'mon! She was dull and mopey and had very little to offer. What on earth someone like Willow was doing with her I have no idea.

Hell, Dawn was more interesting than Tara. That's right, I said it.

Tara was the viewer's representative on the show - an outsider who felt like she had nothing to offer, not even there at the beginning like Xander was. But she was Willow's strength, source of her magnified powers and yet also her anchor in the real, non magical world. I can see your point but she had to be like that for the character's place in the show to work. Low self esteem but in reality she was one of the most important characters in there, as her death and its tragic consequences showed

 

[JTG]

Unlike the awful slayerette Willow hooks up with in the last season. Ugh.

The horrendous over-privileged and over-confident child from old money in New York? Yuck

 

[Lord Camomile]

Tara was the viewer's representative on the show - an outsider who felt like she had nothing to offer, not even there at the beginning like Xander was. But she was Willow's strength, source of her magnified powers and yet also her anchor in the real, non magical world. I can see your point but she had to be like that for the character's place in the show to work. Low self esteem but in reality she was one of the most important characters in there, as her death and its tragic consequences showed

Why, five seasons in, do we need a 'viewer's representative'?

Anyway, like I said perhaps I'll review my opinion on another viewing, don't want to derail what was a rather happy thread

 

[Hellsbells]

god i loved Buffy. I miss those days.
I actually named my cat after Willow, my favourite character

 

[Reno]

The horrendous over-privileged and over-confident child from old money in New York? Yuck

Yes, she was one character I hated too, she was a brat and unworthy of Willow.

 

[The Octagon]

It's a little sad that I saw the thread title, when it was started and the number of pages and went

/whedonite

 

[JTG]

Why, five seasons in, do we need a 'viewer's representative'?

Anyway, like I said perhaps I'll review my opinion on another viewing, don't want to derail what was a rather happy thread

Because, as the Scoobies all got increasingly experienced/powerful (even Xander was marrying an ex-demon ffs), we needed someone to remind them of the importance of ordinary Joes and Jolenes

 

[JTG]

Yes, she was one character I hated too, she was a brat and unworthy of Willow.

I'd rather she'd ended up with that weird pseudo-Cockney potential Slayer

 

[Lord Camomile]

Because, as the Scoobies all got increasingly experienced/powerful (even Xander was marrying an ex-demon ffs), we needed someone to remind them of the importance of ordinary Joes and Jolenes

Fair enough, but why did she have to be so mopey and dull? Xander and Giles were both regular Joes (up to a point) but they were also interesting, engaging characters.

 

[JTG]

Fair enough, but why did she have to be so mopey and dull? Xander and Giles were both regular Joes (up to a point) but they were also interesting, engaging characters.

I'd prefer 'understated' and I related to her low self esteem but I can see your point somewhat

 

[Lord Camomile]

I'd prefer 'understated' and I related to her low self esteem but I can see your point somewhat

I'd still argue I've seen understated and low self esteem characters done far better than Tara.

 

[Reno]

I just never found Tara mopey and dull and like all Buffy characters she changed a lot as the show went on.

 

[Lord Camomile]

Now watching Hush off the back of this, but just discovered it's not the best episode to watch while surfing urban in another window

Oh this was the worst episode to watch before going to bed

 

[Rebelda]

Fair enough, but why did she have to be so mopey and dull? Xander and Giles were both regular Joes (up to a point) but they were also interesting, engaging characters.

Because not everyone can be interesting and engaging all the time. I'd argue that she isn't mopey and dull but socially awkward and shy to begin with, but all the scoobies come to rely on her in a big way. The show needed a 'good' peripheral character - they couldn't all be exciting and important - but then again she went on to be pivotal to the plot. Whedon being clever again I'd say.

I do recall not being all that keen on her first time round, btw.

eta: Giles was a watcher and Xander was a scoobie from the start. Not regular Joes in my book.

 

[red rose]

Having not watched Buffy for years and years I have gone through all seven seasons in the last month or so. I am currently almost at the end of season 7 and had completely forgotten that Anya dies until I saw this thread

I was worried it wouldn't hold up to my memory of it now that I'm an adult but the only difference I've found is that watching it as a 13 year old I could believe that the characters were in their late teens and early twenties because they just looked older than me, watching it now some of them look about 30 when they're supposed to be 20. But the dialogue and the humour and the storylines are still fantastic

One thing I had forgotten is how much I hated Dawn, with her constant tantrums and "no one likes me anyway" and screeching at people. I'm firmly coming down in the anti-Dawn camp.

 

[JTG]

Having not watched Buffy for years and years I have gone through all seven seasons in the last month or so. I am currently almost at the end of season 7 and had completely forgotten that Anya dies until I saw this thread

I was worried it wouldn't hold up to my memory of it now that I'm an adult but the only difference I've found is that watching it as a 13 year old I could believe that the characters were in their late teens and early twenties because they just looked older than me, watching it now some of them look about 30 when they're supposed to be 20. But the dialogue and the humour and the storylines are still fantastic

One thing I had forgotten is how much I hated Dawn, with her constant tantrums and "no one likes me anyway" and screeching at people. I'm firmly coming down in the anti-Dawn camp.

You know I rewatched the lot recently and was enchanted all over again

Dawn's just so damn stupid. Incapable of learning from anything. Even Xander looks wise next to her

 

[Rebelda]

I'd rather she'd ended up with that weird pseudo-Cockney potential Slayer

The one with the obvious Australian accent

Urban needed this thread The Octagon

 

[Lord Camomile]

Because not everyone can be interesting and engaging all the time. I'd argue that she isn't mopey and dull but socially awkward and shy to begin with, but all the scoobies come to rely on her in a big way. The show needed a 'good' peripheral character - they couldn't all be exciting and important - but then again she went on to be pivotal to the plot. Whedon being clever again I'd say.

I do recall not being all that keen on her first time round, btw.

eta: Giles was a watcher and Xander was a scoobie from the start. Not regular Joes in my book.

I'm tired enough that I slept through my stop on the way home tonight, so this is not going to be particularly well thought out or articulated, but:

Doesn't have to be all the time, but some of the time would have been nice. I think a lot of my problem was with the way the actor played her, just didn't think she was that good an actor really, at least not in this role.

Also, a character can be shy and socially awkward and still be interesting, engaging and have depth.

Finally, there's a difference between a character and the role they play in the story mechanics. Fair enough, perhaps she was supposed to be a representative for the viewer, and Willow's anchor, and someone the whole gang relies on, but I don't think any of those roles necessitated her being written and portrayed the way she was. I know I keep banging the same drum but it's because fundamentally it's what it came down to for me - she was boring, not interesting, and I just didn't care about her at all.

 

[Reno]

I was worried it wouldn't hold up to my memory of it now that I'm an adult but the only difference I've found is that watching it as a 13 year old I could believe that the characters were in their late teens and early twenties because they just looked older than me, watching it now some of them look about 30 when they're supposed to be 20. But the dialogue and the humour and the storylines are still fantastic .

Cornelia certainly was an old teenager, Charisma Carpenter pushing 30 early on in the series. She was funny though, so that's fine. I think Spike was already 40 when he started and he I did look younger.

 

[Rebelda]

Having not watched Buffy for years and years I have gone through all seven seasons in the last month or so. I am currently almost at the end of season 7 and had completely forgotten that Anya dies until I saw this thread

I was worried it wouldn't hold up to my memory of it now that I'm an adult but the only difference I've found is that watching it as a 13 year old I could believe that the characters were in their late teens and early twenties because they just looked older than me, watching it now some of them look about 30 when they're supposed to be 20. But the dialogue and the humour and the storylines are still fantastic

One thing I had forgotten is how much I hated Dawn, with her constant tantrums and "no one likes me anyway" and screeching at people. I'm firmly coming down in the anti-Dawn camp.

Sorry for the spoiler

I watched it first time around as a young teen too and I remember really loving episodes like the one where Buffy can hear everyone's thoughts - i.e. blatant teenage isolation metaphors - and characters like Tara and all the meta-televisual brilliance etc. going right over my head. Definitely one to re-watch, I agree.

Manter (I think..), re. Angel, I really must watch it too. Once you get into the plot of Buffy you realise you've missed stuff when the characters cross over. I remember abandoning it contemporarily when one of the early episodes broke my 13 year old heart

I've just remembered Harmony! This thread is really cathartic for me - purging my inner monologue

 

[Manter]

Cornelia certainly was an old teenager, Charisma Carpenter pushing 30 early on in the series. Shewas funny though, so that's fine. I think Spike was already 40 when he started and he I did look younger.

She was fab- that bitchy valley girl schtick was well judged- not too overdone or one dimensional IMO

 

[Manter]

Sorry for the spoiler

I watched it first time around as a young teen too and I remember really loving episodes like the one where Buffy can hear everyone's thoughts - i.e. blatant teenage isolation metaphors - and characters like Tara and all the meta-televisual brilliance etc. going right over my head. Definitely one to re-watch, I agree.

Manter (I think..), re. Angel, I really must watch it too. Once you get into the plot of Buffy you realise you've missed stuff when the characters cross over. I remember abandoning it contemporarily when one of the early episodes broke my 13 year old heart

I've just remembered Harmony! This thread is really cathartic for me - purging my inner monologue

I had forgotten Harmony....!

 

[JTG]

God, Harmony was dumb!

I've just remembered, I had a proper thing for Darla as well. Only in her vampire form mind

 

[Reno]

I had forgotten Harmony....!

She really came into her own on Angel as a character and was very funny there. I thought that actress was great, even though all she ever gets cast as are blonde dimwits. She was very funny in the retro-slasher film Hatchet where she played and a porn star who was even more dumber than Harmony.

 

[red rose]

Sorry for the spoiler

I watched it first time around as a young teen too and I remember really loving episodes like the one where Buffy can hear everyone's thoughts - i.e. blatant teenage isolation metaphors -

I loved that episode, getting to hear Oz's thoughts was brilliant

I am my thoughts. If they exist in her, Buffy contains everything that is me and she becomes me. I cease to exist. No one else exists either. Buffy is all of us. We think. Therefore she is.