Brown to continue with radical welfare reform, privatisations

[Fullyplumped]

Fantastic, but where's the child care? My son has access to six days playscheme over six weeks holiday. The last time I had a chat with a lone parent advisor vis a vis entitlements to benefit if I took a part time job, they couldn't even tell me!

I don't know - these things are determined locally, and I don't know why the advisor you spoke to was clueless. I've come across good ones in my time who made sure they were properly in formed. In Scotland we have child care partnerships where these things are well organised - looks like they exist in England too. The Green Paper talks about initiatives such as an up-front child care costs pilot in London, but this is a whole area of real weakness in the strategy.

You have some ideas and a point of view. Why not read the Green Paper, respond to the consultation, and talk to your local MP?

 

[Fullyplumped]

Seven is awfully young. Kids that age get lots of illnesses and frequently need someone at home with them from school. Btw twelve, seven.... do they pick these numbers out of a hat or is there some kind of sequence forming??

See the Freud Report, chapter 5, page 85 and onwards. He concludes that

Overall, the range of international evidence suggests that there is certainly scope for the UK to look again at what might be reasonable once children reach a certain age.​

There is no work test for lone parents in Portugal and Spain.

The work test is independent of the child's age in -

Belgium (Discretion)
Finland
Denmark (subject to childcare)
Japan (Discretion)
Sweden​

Elsewhere, the work test applies if the age of the youngest child is -

Ireland (18 or 22 if child in full-time education)
New Zealand (18)
United Kingdom (16)
Australia (16/7)
Luxembourg (6)
Canada (0.5-6)
Netherlands (5)
Czech Republic (4)
Austria (About 3)
France (3)
Germany (3)
Norway (3)
Switzerland (3)
United States (usually 0.25-1,with some exceptions)​

 

[_angel_]

See the Freud Report, chapter 5, page 85 and onwards. He concludes that

Overall, the range of international evidence suggests that there is certainly scope for the UK to look again at what might be reasonable once children reach a certain age.​

There is no work test for lone parents in Portugal and Spain.

The work test is independent of the child's age in -

Belgium (Discretion)
Finland
Denmark (subject to childcare)
Japan (Discretion)
Sweden​

Elsewhere, the work test applies if the age of the youngest child is -

Ireland (18 or 22 if child in full-time education)
New Zealand (18)
United Kingdom (16)
Australia (16/7)
Luxembourg (6)
Canada (0.5-6)
Netherlands (5)
Czech Republic (4)
Austria (About 3)
France (3)
Germany (3)
Norway (3)
Switzerland (3)
United States (usually 0.25-1,with some exceptions)​

Yeah, the US that expects mums to hand over three month old babies to a stranger. That's fantastic that is!


I think a move to Ireland may be on the cards.... I discovered I already have citizenship.

What I do wonder is will they ignore carers on carers allowance when they throw us all on to JSA? Will a bell ring in anyone's head and go 'ah but this person is a fulltime carer so can't really look for work?' Or will they, as I imagine go 'lalalalala we're not listening'?

 

[Fullyplumped]

What I do wonder is will they ignore carers on carers allowance

You haven't actually bothered to read it, have you? The answer to your question is in the green paper.

It seems to me an odd thing to do to choose which country you will live in on the basis of how its tax payers will support you to live on welfare benefts as an adult without working to support yourself and your family.

You will be missed, though. Maybe the Irish government will pay you a grant to move over?

 

[_angel_]

You haven't actually bothered to read it, have you? The answer to your question is in the green paper.

It seems to me an odd thing to do to choose which country you will live in on the basis of how its tax payers will support you to live on welfare benefts as an adult without working to support yourself and your family.

You will be missed, though. Maybe the Irish government will pay you a grant to move over?

I was joking about Ireland btw.



sorry it will take me all week to read that report. Any chance of a summary..?

 

[_angel_]

I'm sorry that report is an absolute fucking nightmare to read online and also just full of vague platitudes.
It does however lie when it says there's no compulsion on lone parents to look for work, when I have been forced to attend 'back to work ' interviews when my youngest was as young as two. The tone of these interviews has clearly shifted up a couple of gears.. but I noticed the job centre not following their own rules, as I was not meant to be compelled to attend them until my youngest turns five.



Is there some way of getting a paper copy of it cos reading it in acrobat is doing my head in.

 

[Fullyplumped]

I'm sorry that report is an absolute fucking nightmare to read online

Copies of this publication are also available in Braille, Easy Read, in large print format and on audio cassette, free of charge from:
Work, Welfare and Equality Group
2nd Floor
The Adelphi
1-11 John Adam Street
London
WC2N 6HT
Telephone: 020 7712 2551
If you have speech or hearing difficulties, you can contact us by textphone on 020 7712 2032
The lines are open Monday to Friday, 9am–4pm.

and also just full of vague platitudes.
It does however lie when it says there's no compulsion on lone parents to look for work, when I have been forced to attend 'back to work ' interviews when my youngest was as young as two. The tone of these interviews has clearly shifted up a couple of gears.. but I noticed the job centre not following their own rules, as I was not meant to be compelled to attend them until my youngest turns five.

See, read these things and you learn about your rights.

Is there some way of getting a paper copy of it cos reading it in acrobat is doing my head in.

see above

 

[_angel_]

Thanks. I finally got acrobat to behave itself and read a little.

They obviously do not follow their own rules and just target lone parents regardless of their caring status. The report says they will not compel carers to look for work.. if only they could get their staff to follow the rules.


I think I will order a paper copy, then I can point this paragrapgh out to anyone who tries to get funny, thankyou.

Copies of this publication are also available in Braille, Easy Read, in large print format and on audio cassette, free of charge from:
Work, Welfare and Equality Group
2nd Floor
The Adelphi
1-11 John Adam Street
London
WC2N 6HT
Telephone: 020 7712 2551
If you have speech or hearing difficulties, you can contact us by textphone on 020 7712 2032
The lines are open Monday to Friday, 9am–4pm.

See, read these things and you learn about your rights.

see above

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

I was joking about Ireland btw.



sorry it will take me all week to read that report. Any chance of a summary..?

There's a good summary of the Freud report on the Disability Alliance website.

The main thing to note is that whereas Freud recommended lone parents needing to sign on when their youngest reaches the age of 12 years, the new green paper proposes this to take place in October 2008 but also goes further than this with the additional proposal for lowering the age to 7 years by 2010.

There's also a summary of the green paper proposals on the DA site.

 

[treelover]

I recently spoke to the disability alliance head honchos, its clear they are now taking a more assertive approach than in the past, though of course to be 'in the loop' they have to compromise, other user led groups like SWAN don't have to.

 

[treelover]

Btw apparently even merchant banker Freud was shocked by how much further the Green Paper goes...

 

[_angel_]

There's a good summary of the Freud report on the Disability Alliance website.

The main thing to note is that whereas Freud recommended lone parents needing to sign on when their youngest reaches the age of 12 years, the new green paper proposes this to take place in October 2008 but also goes further than this with the additional proposal for lowering the age to 7 years by 2010.

There's also a summary of the green paper proposals on the DA site.

Yep. That was in the daily mirror last week about that.... interesting this

"In 2005 the Department for Work and Pensions' own research found that: "an unrestricted requirement to search for work is inappropriate, given the complex and difficult circumstances many lone parents face.... Such an approach would be expensive, unfair and ineffectual."

That was their own department saying this in 2005. What has changed.. also I need to know what actually is the law and what isn't. The Freud report is just a proposal, isn't it?

I need to actually know whether the job centre are being legal or not in compelling me, as a carer to attend back to work interviews (esp with an under five year old child) and look for work, or not.


I don't seem to know the rules and I'm not sure the job centre staff do, either.

 

[terratech]

Ok Angle a Quick summary of the Proposals Means:

Plans for Reform

The four core groups being looked at by the green paper includes those on incapacity benefit, lone Parents, Coupled families and those already claiming. Here stronger expectation of each group to find work will be mandated and backed up by sanctions.

Incapacity Benefits

This is to be replaced by the new employment and support allowance (ESA) from April 2008.

It focus will be to encourage those claiming to find work and a requirement of receiving it will be to attend a Pathway to Work programme.
There will also be some requirement to undertake some form of activity to improve the chances of employment in order to qualify for full rate benefit.

Lone Parents

They will have to change attitude and expect to combine work with family.

From Oct 2008 lone parents with the youngest child over 12 years will not be able to claim income support solely on the grounds of being a lone parent.

From Oct 2010 lone parents with the youngest child over 7 years will not be able to claim income support solely on the grounds of being a lone parent.

Before the child reaches said ages they are to attend frequent work Focused interviews.

Direct financial assistance is to be given to encourage work related activity.

Coupled Families

Partners of Jobseeker’s Allowance Recipients with children will be asked to attend mandatory six monthly interviews.

Job Seekers

A New Regime

A new structure will be introduced to move away from the distinction of age made in interaction to all aspects of the New Deal. Further lone parents, the disabled moved from their benefit to claiming Jobseekers allowance will be expected to complete the programme outlined below.

1. At the first stage of the process of signing on you will be met by an advisor who will diagnose your barriers to work.

2. This would set out your path through the JSA scheme. Here if you are identified as lacking any basic or employability skills you would be referred for a ‘skills health check’. Today this has mostly comprised of doing a Basic English and Maths test. Failure to reach a certain score would see you recommended for or directed to attend a programme.

3. From here on if nothing has been recommended for you, you will be reminded of your responsibilities in being able to receive benefit and sent away. This usually means keeping a record of the job vacancies that you have applied for to be presented fortnightly as you sign on.
4. To most that have had to claim this will be pretty much what has gone on before. This period relatively free of harassment will last for the first three months of a claim. Under consideration however is the use of group sessions at around week six of a claim to reinforce the ‘work first’ principle within you. These sessions would cover aspects of your rights and responsibilities and what is expected of you.

Stage 2

5. After three months, if your claim is continued, you would be ask to attend a formal review of your Jobseeker’s Agreement. Here it expected that if you have restricted yourself in any way in their opinion then a new agreement would be encouraged to extend your job search based on travel to work, wage and working hours rather than by preferred employment or occupation.

Stage 3

6. After six months on JSA you would now enter the Gateway stage, building on the current New Deal Gateways. This would involve a formal review with a personal adviser who would draw up a back-to-work action plan selecting from a menu of activities aimed at improving employability and job chances. Each person would be expected to agree to this and complete a number of such activities. Each of the agreed activities would be mandatory.

7. Fast tracking here is possible as those with literacy, numeracy or language needs, having maybe refused help could be directed to take part in suitable training.

Stage 4

8. After 12 months undertaking solely Jobcentre Plus work related activity, you would be required to join specialist return-to-work provision through the public, private or third sectors. Previously a stage attended to every six month by the under 25`s and 18 month thereafter for over 25`s this stage is seen as a great change.

9. The specific package of support here would be for the provider to agree with you based around a minimum level of prescription, as in the current Employment Zones. This would include a minimum of fortnightly contact with you; an initial, in-depth assessment of employment-related needs; and the production of a challenging personal action plan. Participation and compliance with the action plan would be mandatory.

10. Here its envisioned by the government that few claimants would fail to find work after 12 months especially after the specialist provisions laid out. However with due consideration of the Old/New Deal failure was a frequent outcome and the government have provided for this by stipulating that should you have failed to find work you would be required/directed to undertake a period of employment within the community or regular employer for a given period.

 

[_angel_]

This would set out your path through the JSA scheme. Here if you are identified as lacking any basic or employability skills you would be referred for a ‘skills health check’. Today this has mostly comprised of doing a Basic English and Maths test. Failure to reach a certain score would see you recommended for or directed to attend a programme.

That's just insulting! Basic english tests.


Nobody resolves whether carers are to be forced onto jsa as the whole point of being a carer means u've given up work to care.

I submitted a q to the dwp website.

 

[treelover]

Welcome to the boards Terratech, i notice you post stuff about 'bread and butter' issues on other sites, we need you here....

btw, have a look at this

www.swansheffield.org.uk

 

[terratech]

angle

Carers are exempt from the process except in the case that they request it.... (That is if you are a registered carer, otherwise if it just children you talking about be they Disabled then ? as you will have talk to them. You see they see this now as a process of weeding and getting bang for thier bucks.)

English & Maths Tests are `Stage One` tests and if your clever you can refuse but will be asked to do an even more basic test... piont is to show any further education results etc but they may come back to you with the suggestion many people get through college without knowing how to read and right.

 

[terratech]

Welcome to the boards Terratech, i notice you post stuff about 'bread and butter' issues on other sites, we need you here....

btw, have a look at this

www.swansheffield.org.uk

Yo treelover
Thanks I do my best.... regular visiter to swan and have it up as a link on the site i`m trying to get of the ground on just what youv`e indicated on bread & butter issues.

 

[_angel_]

angle

Carers are exempt from the process except in the case that they request it.... (That is if you are a registered carer, otherwise if it just children you talking about be they Disabled then ? as you will have talk to them. You see they see this now as a process of weeding and getting bang for thier bucks.)

.

Not quite sure what you mean there. Do you mean a carer of a disabled adult is treated as not being required for work, but the carer of a disabled child is... because children are evidently not as worthy?

Btw not having a go at you, trying to find out what the actual law is saying...

 

[Fullyplumped]

Not quite sure what you mean there. Do you mean a carer of a disabled adult is treated as not being required for work, but the carer of a disabled child is... because children are evidently not as worthy?

Btw not having a go at you, trying to find out what the actual law is saying...

These are proposals in a Green Paper so it doesn't set out how the law would work, but I imagine that the easiest test for DWP to manage would be eligibility or receipt for Carers' Allowance. This would include the carer of a disabled child.

The test for eligibility of Carers' Allowance is -
you spend at least 35 hours a week looking after the person in need of care;
you have net earnings of less than the lower earnings limit
if you are in full-time education, you spend less than 21 hours in 'supervised study'.

In addition, the person for whom you care must be claiming (or waiting to hear about) one or more of:
Attendance Allowance,
Disability Living Allowance middle (or higher rate),
Industrial Injuries Benefit,
Constant Attendance Allowance, or
War Pensions Constant Attendance Allowance.

You must be over 16 to claim Carer's Allowance but there is no upper age limit. The person you care for can be anyone, including a relative. It can be paid to more than one person in a household, such as a couple caring for each other.

source - Entitled To website

home page with benefits calculator here

 

[terratech]

Hi Angle.. sorry for the confusing way I explained, Anyway here is the relevent sections for carers from the green paper.

22. Other lone parents would be able to claim the appropriate benefit for their circumstances. For example, lone parents receiving Carer’s Allowance for disabled children (or for caring for others) will be able to continue to claim Income Support should they wish.

32. Carers play a very valuable role in society and being a carer will often be a full-time role. We have considered increasing the work-related responsibilities for carers and do not believe that this would be appropriate. However, we do need to do more to help those carers who wish to prepare for or return to work to do so. Periods of caring vary significantly, so raising the issue of work related activity when caring starts may not be appropriate in many circumstances. Carers and advisers view mandatory Work Focused Interviews at the start of a carer’s benefit claim as ill-timed and ineffective. However, carers can volunteer for a Work Focused Interview at any time and we are raising adviser awareness of carers’ issues to ensure they are supported appropriately.

33. We are reviewing the Prime Minister’s 1999 Carer’s Strategy to shape support for carers, including employment support. The Department of Health is leading this work which includes a nationwide consultation with carers and voluntary organisations. A UK-wide Interdepartmental Carers’ Strategy Steering Group has been set up to ensure that the consultation and future strategy is jointly owned across government. An External Reference Group (including representation from local authorities, providers and the voluntary sector) is also being set up.


Got to agree with fully plumped the situation is fluid and just yesterday Peter Hain was reported in the financial Times as saying that he is backing away from the privatisation of welfare (but dont hold your breath).

 

[_angel_]

Hi Angle.. sorry for the confusing way I explained, Anyway here is the relevent sections for carers from the green paper.

22. Other lone parents would be able to claim the appropriate benefit for their circumstances. For example, lone parents receiving Carer’s Allowance for disabled children (or for caring for others) will be able to continue to claim Income Support should they wish.

32. Carers play a very valuable role in society and being a carer will often be a full-time role. We have considered increasing the work-related responsibilities for carers and do not believe that this would be appropriate. However, we do need to do more to help those carers who wish to prepare for or return to work to do so. Periods of caring vary significantly, so raising the issue of work related activity when caring starts may not be appropriate in many circumstances. Carers and advisers view mandatory Work Focused Interviews at the start of a carer’s benefit claim as ill-timed and ineffective. However, carers can volunteer for a Work Focused Interview at any time and we are raising adviser awareness of carers’ issues to ensure they are supported appropriately.

33. We are reviewing the Prime Minister’s 1999 Carer’s Strategy to shape support for carers, including employment support. The Department of Health is leading this work which includes a nationwide consultation with carers and voluntary organisations. A UK-wide Interdepartmental Carers’ Strategy Steering Group has been set up to ensure that the consultation and future strategy is jointly owned across government. An External Reference Group (including representation from local authorities, providers and the voluntary sector) is also being set up.


Got to agree with fully plumped the situation is fluid and just yesterday Peter Hain was reported in the financial Times as saying that he is backing away from the privatisation of welfare (but dont hold your breath).

That's interesting, have you got a link for that.

They do not follow their own rules, then, I have had at least three 'work focussed interviews'.

 

[_angel_]

Slight bump for selfish reasons. I know this thread is about proposed changes to the system but does anyone know at what age kids have to be before the parents can be forced to attend 'back to work ' interviews.

I read somewhere the age was five but can't 'member where. I have been attending them since my youngest was two and have another 'invitation' and he's still only four.

Actually I want to go but I also want to know if they are following their own rules or not.

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

Afaik, all lone parents are now expected to go for regular work-focused interviews, no matter what age their youngest child is. Following a new claim for IS, you will have the first WFI at 6 months, then another after 6 months, then it should be annually. Once your youngest reaches the age of 14, they become even more regular.

Remember, you must go to the interview cos if you don't they can cut your benefits, but also remember that you can't be forced into applying for any particular job or sent on a training course - what's important is to show an interest and be clear as to why it may be difficult at the moment for you to become more active (iirc one of your kids needs a lot of care).

 

[_angel_]

Ta. Like I said I want to go (just rearranged the date) because of the fiasco and lack of info I got when I wanted to apply for something that was less than 16 hours. I'd like to know what is what.

I'm surprised they're trying to get people to wfi with six month old babies. Ffs! They're meant to be encouraging breastfeeding for the first year!

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

Innit.

Don't forget the latest Green Paper In work, better off (ha!), which is proposing that from 2012 i think, lone parents will be forced to claim jobseekers allowance when their youngest child reaches the age of 7!!