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Brighton Mayday? Are you coming to the seaside?

Guys, get a grip.

A march in Brighton against the cuts is going to be:-

1) Futile
2) Misguided

This may sound inflammatory but I'll state my case:-

The current economic position cannot sustain the levels of public spending advocated by the last government. When public purse spending on welfare, education, defence et al is 110% of the revenue income of a government, the books do not balance and therefore cuts need to be made.

Throughout the credit crunch period, the private sector has taken a big hit - I have had no pay increase since 2006. Under Labour, the public sector maintained its, in my view, protected status with very little impact on jobs. The current cuts are only realligning the public sector with the real world.

It is slightly disingenuous to blame the whole problem on "the bankers". In fact, during the last election and before, Gordon Brown was arguing that the credit crunch/bank crisis was caused by the "global economic downturn". Regardless of City of London hedge fund bonuses, the crash was going to happen anyway.

It should also be noted that the profligacy of Blair, Brown and Darling has been a major factor in the current precarious position the country is in. You may blame the bankers - the deregulation of the banks by Brown allowed them to act in the manner that they did. Beforehand, there were strict measures in place that would have stopped the likes of Northern Rock getting into the predicament that they did.

So, at the end of the day, you have the freedom to march and protest as much as you like - I aint gonna stop you. But bear this in mind - there are many small businesses in Brighton that rely on trade from tourists/out of towners who may be put off entering the city if there is going to be a demo. Do they support you?
 
Wickerman said:
So, at the end of the day, you have the freedom to march and protest as much as you like - I aint gonna stop you. But bear this in mind - there are many small businesses in Brighton that rely on trade from tourists/out of towners who may be put off entering the city if there is going to be a demo. Do they support you?
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otoh, there will be thousands of people attending the demo that will spend money in the shops.

I can't be bothered to respond to the rest of your post this morning. Needless to say I am in total disagreement with you on the economics of the situation, I would suggest you get reading through the stuff on False Economy to get an understanding of the other side of the argument, if you're feeling really up for it you could also read some Keynes. Oh, and watch this David Harvey talk/video from If you're in the private sector and had no wage increase since 2006 - two years before the crisis hit - then perhaps you should be asking why your conditions haven't improved and what you could do about it, rather than arguing that different group of workers should suffer as well.

ps. on a factual point, Brown didn't deregulate the banks, that was done many, many years before by Thatcher. Brown failed to re-regulate them of course. And the profligate spending you refer to? well, the national debt as % gdp was lower the day before northern rock collapsed than it was when Labour came to power in 1997. I'm not a labour supporter btw, and think that they made huge economic mistakes (PFI and running a deficit 2002-2008 in particular) but there are some pesky facts here that completely undermine the argument you are making
 
Ten plus local activist groups participating in Brighton mayday! The starting location will be announced nearer to the time for security reasons via telephone/twitter/facebook.
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Bring it on! :cool:

wickerman said:
So, at the end of the day, you have the freedom to march and protest as much as you like - I aint gonna stop you.
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You got that right.
 
I have taken the time to look at the False Economy website and, if I'm honest, agree with some of it but also disagree with quite alot of it.

I would dearly like to see no cuts for frontline health service, disability benefits, help for the aged, education etc. My wife is currently undergoing tests that may confirm that she has MS - a good friend of mine has been suffering from MS for a number of years. I want to see the best treatment for everyone.

Having said the above, I am a realist - whether we like it or not, there do need to be cuts made. The books just do not balance unless there is some reining in on spending. As a result, I think that we all need to make some sacrifice - and that includes the public sector workers.

As I said in my first post, I still think the march is misguided.
 
There needs to be a re-alignment of the spending to match the amount of money the administration actually has at their disposal to spend.

In my view, there are some "holy grails" that should be protected - the NHS being free to all at the time of need, welfare for persons unable to work due to disability/illness.

However, there is currently a massive drain on the state for long term sickness benefit. I have no problem at all with the government reassessing all claimants of this benefit and, if needs be, terminating the benefit for those that are claiming without good reason. The people that are genuinely in need should have nothing to fear. The lead swingers should be wary.

In answer to the previous posters question, why do there have to be cuts is a bit naive - the country is skint! The real question is where do we make the cuts that will affect the most vulnerable the least - this is a difficult question.
 
The country isn't skint - this is a myth.

The collective wealth of Britain’s 1,000 richest people has increased by almost a third in the past year despite the uncertain economy, according to the Sunday Times Rich List 2010.
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...ins-richest-see-wealth-rise-by-one-third.html

Despite a recession for the majority of us, the super rich are still getting richer. Close the tax gap and there's very little need for cuts to services.

On sickness benefit, Lord Freud recently had to apologise for misrepresenting the figures and stated that “the vast majority of benefit recipients are genuinely entitled to the financial support they receive”.
 
Wickerman said:
There needs to be a re-alignment of the spending to match the amount of money the administration actually has at their disposal to spend.

In my view, there are some "holy grails" that should be protected - the NHS being free to all at the time of need, welfare for persons unable to work due to disability/illness.

However, there is currently a massive drain on the state for long term sickness benefit. I have no problem at all with the government reassessing all claimants of this benefit and, if needs be, terminating the benefit for those that are claiming without good reason. The people that are genuinely in need should have nothing to fear. The lead swingers should be wary.

In answer to the previous posters question, why do there have to be cuts is a bit naive - the country is skint! The real question is where do we make the cuts that will affect the most vulnerable the least - this is a difficult question.
Click to expand...

Poppy-cock.

If you want to play within government economics, an actual question might be where do we increase spending the most?

Disabled access for underground stations, bridge construction, rises in the EMA to offset inflation, bicycle factories, expansion of free old-age care.
 
You are blurring the lines between the rich's personal wealth and the country.

As a country, we have a deficit that is the worst that it has been for many years. With regard to the sickness benefit, there are huge numbers of recipients that have not been assessed for 20 years or more - are you telling me that all these people are unable to work.

Don't get me wrong, I have no problem at all with benefits being paid where benefits are due. If after assessment people qualify then no problems as far as I am concerned. However, I suspect that there are a number of persons that have had an easy life 'on the sick' at the expense of you and me.
 
Wickerman said:
You are blurring the lines between the rich's personal wealth and the country.
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What do you mean by "the country"? Do you mean the state? Where do you think the state gets its income from?

Wickerman said:
As a country, we have a deficit that is the worst that it has been for many years.
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Not true.
http://falseeconomy.org.uk/cure/how-big-is-the-problem

Wickerman said:
With regard to the sickness benefit, there are huge numbers of recipients that have not been assessed for 20 years or more -
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Evidence?

Wickerman said:
are you telling me that all these people are unable to work.
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I have no idea, I'm not a doctor. Are you?

Wickerman said:
Don't get me wrong, I have no problem at all with benefits being paid where benefits are due. If after assessment people qualify then no problems as far as I am concerned. However, I suspect that there are a number of persons that have had an easy life 'on the sick' at the expense of you and me.
Click to expand...

Evidence?
 
Blagsta, we are never going to agree but think you are living in cloud cuckoo land!

The difference between state and country is semantics

Falseeconomy.org is not the oracle. It is a website that expresses views that are similar to yours. Therefore, not incontravertible fact.

Regarding the reassessing of persons who are receiving sickness benefit, I know of at least 5 people who have not been assessed for 10 years plus and are receiving the benefit.

I am no doctor either but you must be extraordinarily naive to think that there are not people out there playing the system at the expense of the honest tax payer.

I am one of those tax payers and frankly am getting pissed off with the spongers that take my hard earned when I could be spending it on my own kids.
 
Wickerman said:
Blagsta, we are never going to agree but think you are living in cloud cuckoo land!

The difference between state and country is semantics
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I was attempting to clarify your ambigous statement.

Wickerman said:
Falseeconomy.org is not the oracle. It is a website that expresses views that are similar to yours. Therefore, not incontravertible fact.
Click to expand...

Are you challenging the statistics? Have you a source that says differently?

Wickerman said:
Regarding the reassessing of persons who are receiving sickness benefit, I know of at least 5 people who have not been assessed for 10 years plus and are receiving the benefit.
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This is not evidence.

Wickerman said:
I am no doctor either but you must be extraordinarily naive to think that there are not people out there playing the system at the expense of the honest tax payer.
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No actual evidence then?

Wickerman said:
I am one of those tax payers and frankly am getting pissed off with the spongers that take my hard earned when I could be spending it on my own kids.
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Have you any data as to how many "spongers" there are?
 
www what about war wiickerman? :hmm: happy to pay for that?
and about the unclaimed benefit every year?
 
Blagsta

Evidence seems to be your major suit.

Have you evidence that:-

There is no economic problem?
There are no benefit cheats?

The point that I am making is that however much we dislike the spending cuts (and I know they are cuts - lets not fanny around with dressing them up as something else), some of them are neccessary. Getting back to the original post, I still feel that a march in Brighton would be unwise.
 
Wickerman said:
Blagsta

Evidence seems to be your major suit.

Have you evidence that:-

There is no economic problem?
There are no benefit cheats?

The point that I am making is that however much we dislike the spending cuts (and I know they are cuts - lets not fanny around with dressing them up as something else), some of them are neccessary. Getting back to the original post, I still feel that a march in Brighton would be unwise.
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I haven't said there is no economic problem. I haven't said there are no benefit cheats. What I have done is provide information to back up my position. Something which you have spectacularly failed to do.

Either debate in an honest fashion and back up your views or fuck off.
 
ddraig,

I am absolutely against the war - unless we are being directly threatened at our borders, we have no reason to engage in conflict. Therefore, bring the boys back home now.
 
carolinelucas.jpg
barnett_black_widow_catapult.jpg
violetflower.jpg
images
 
I thought we were debating in an honest fashion. Being told to fuck off is offensive to me - to me it shows a weakness in the argument of the person who uses the phrase. Be a little bit more civil!
 
Wickerman said:
I thought we were debating in an honest fashion. Being told to fuck off is offensive to me - to me it shows a weakness in the argument of the person who uses the phrase. Be a little bit more civil!
Click to expand...

You jumped in with some Tory crap on a Brighton Mayday thread - take it on the chin!

What about this march anyway?
 
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