Brexit or Bremain - Urban votes

[ItWillNeverWork]

Eh?

The whole point of exit, for their funders, is to get rid of workers' rights, safety and environmental rules, policy against climate change...

Which, while not perfect, DO EXIST and will continue to do so for decades (there's an upside to the EU sometimes being slower than the electoral cycle in member states).

And other people want out for different reasons. Wanting something and getting it are two different things. Like I keep saying, the Tories don't have a big enough majority to force through changes such as a repeal of the working time directive. They don't have the support of enough of the country even.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

brexit -> goodbye scotland -> permanent tory majority in england and wales and the six counties

This the first answer I've gotten that makes sense. The possibility of splitting up with Scotland is probably one of the things most likely to make me vote remain. On balance I don't think it will happen though.

 

[chilango]

the mexican institutional revolutionary party enjoyed great success from its foundation until very recently

oh: and the six counties of course for many, many years

Mexico is pretty rigged tbh.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

Fianna Fail were in power in Ireland for 61 of 79 years, and had a single party majority for the bulk of that time. As bourgeois democracies go, Ireland has a more democratic electoral system than most and little history of electoral fraud. Up until they destroyed the economy, it usually took something close to a grand coalition of everyone else to gain a brief respite from them.

 

[killer b]

Why does Scotland exiting the union = a permanent Tory majority?

 

[laptop]

You mean like the TU bill that's being pushed through at the moment despite membership of the EU with the commission seemingly standing by and watching, or the EU/IMF imposing labour reforms in France to make the workforce 'more flexible' and stripping away protections.

I didn't say EU membership prevents the TU bill. But your whataboutery is no answer to the things it DOES do.

 

[laptop]

And other people want out for different reasons. Wanting something and getting it are two different things. Like I keep saying, the Tories don't have a big enough majority to force through changes such as a repeal of the working time directive. They don't have the support of enough of the country even.

But stethoscope just referred to them pushing through the TU Bill. Which they will, with minor concessions

 

[stethoscope]

I didn't say EU membership prevents the TU bill. But your whataboutery is no answer to the things it DOES do.

So, the EU are doing fuck all about the TU bill then. Why would that be? Is it for the same reason as what they're trying to do to French workers rights? (against a 'socialist' government?)

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

But stethoscope just referred to them pushing through the TU Bill. Which they will, with minor concessions

Aren't they struggling passing that bill though? And if it does pass, what does that say for the so-called protections that the EU supposedly offers us? Isn't this a perfect example of how change on the ground occurs through struggles on the ground rather than the decrees of far-away technocrats?

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

I didn't say EU membership prevents the TU bill. But your whataboutery is no answer to the things it DOES do.

So what does it do?

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

So what does it do?

... if not protect us, that is.

 

[laptop]

So, the EU are doing fuck all about the TU bill then. Why would that be? Is it for the same reason as what they're trying to do to French workers rights? (against a 'socialist' government?)

Yes, the details of the 35-hour week, and the complicated procedure for making established posts redundant, went beyond the EU Directive.

You did know what the French protests are about?

 

[stethoscope]

Yes, the details of the 35-hour week, and the complicated procedure for making established posts redundant, went beyond the EU Directive.

You did know what the French protests are about?

Yes, and you made a reference to the UK right wanting to exit to weaken workers rights. The EU are doing the same thing to liberalise markets even further by weakening workers rights. So, not much different to those interests invested in a remain.

 

[stethoscope]

Meh.

 

[discokermit]

Meh.

gets you down, doesn't it. facebook is worse though cos you can see their smug faces.

 

[stethoscope]

Btw, on the subject of the Working Time Directive, this makes interesting reading from the GMB.

 

[chilango]

This probably takes over from 2015 as the most depressing election I've experienced.

 

[Combustible]

So far in this referendum I have found that people generally do not see a lack of knowledge as an obstacle to being patronising.

Quite. I saw this being posted on facebook as an argument against "brexitards"

It is wrong in so many ways, but it even manages to get things wrong in ways that don't even help their case, i.e. since when was the PM or cabinet ministers selected by MPs.

 

[smokedout]

Yes, the details of the 35-hour week, and the complicated procedure for making established posts redundant, went beyond the EU Directive.

There are many laws in the UK that also go beyond EU requirements, whether the minimum wage or equality laws such as gay marriage. All fought for and won without any help from the EU. The notion that the UK working class is entirely ineffectual and dependent on benevolent liberals from the EU to save us from permanent Tory-dom and child slavery is as contemptible as it is willfully ignorant of history.

 

[weltweit]

Anyone watching the BBC1 Big debate atm ?

 

[Pickman's model]

Anyone watching the BBC1 Big debate atm ?

No

 

[weltweit]

No

If that bloody woman says "take back control" again I might just vomit on my monitor!

 

[Pickman's model]

If that bloody woman says "take back control" again I might just vomit on my monitor!

That's why I'm not watching, because they're all a bunch of cunts

 

[bi0boy]

No

I am so you're wrong.

Audience of 6000 so it's a bit unusual as far tv political debates in this country go.

 

[Pickman's model]

Anyone watching the BBC1 Big debate atm ?

(((weltweit))) dk what you did to deserve a like from treelover

 

[Pickman's model]

I am so you're wrong.

Audience of 6000 so it's a bit unusual as far tv political debates in this country go.

Yeh usually they get at least in the hundreds of thousands

 

[chilango]

Why do they need 3 microphones each?

 

[chilango]

Don't think I'll manage more than 5minutes of this.

 

[weltweit]

Ruth Davidson is an arguer
Boris take 10 minutes to make a single point
Andrea Leadsom "speaking as a mother "
Frances O'Grady is making good points but without much punch

 

[lizzieloo]

I'm done, I can't watch them any more.