Brexit or Bremain - Urban votes

[Red O]

Yeah, the reason I highlighted the section was that Mason correctly identifies a list of genuine WC concerns and then dismises them with a demand that they line up behind the Party that abadoned them and helped create many of the problems in the first place.

And one of the features of the campaign has been the outpouring of contemptuous, anti-democratic sentiment from liberal MC Remainers. Just wouldn't have expected Mason to be part of it.

 

[treelover]

shut the fuck up about the SWP. you're the only person left in the country who even remembers who they were.

You shut the fuck up, they are tiny and generally useless, but sadly they still determine along with the Peoples Assembly what mass campaigns happen in this country, on thursday people who have never heard of them will in effect tell them, the liberal middle classes, etc, they want something different

 

[killer b]

What?

 

[treelover]

but reorient itself, stop chasing every fashionable cause SWP style and take on basic issues: housing, social security, ZHC, rogue landlords, workfare, etc.

Note, i said SWP style, the Peoples Assembly could easily say, have set up food banks across the UK, apparently that is according to certain Trots, "social work"

Now reply to my point if you will.

 

[Pickman's model]

I'm a cautious remainer but its becoming clear that brexit for many poor working class people is a big FU to the comfortably off and a cry for help, sneering at them like many of the liberal left have done is counterproductive. If the result is remain, the wider left shouldn't feel vindicated, triumphalist, etc, but reorient itself, stop chasing every fashionable cause SWP style and take on basic issues: housing, social security, ZHC, rogue landlords, workfare, etc.

Oh fuck off you dull twat

 

[belboid]

the Peoples Assembly could easily say, have set up food banks across the UK,

lol

 

[brogdale]

It's also shit.

But he makes the valid observation that with capital & the media split or ambivalent, they obviously do not perceive any existential threat from either outcome...merely the possible inconvenience of having to conduct their accumulation in a second-best political context.
Although there are undeniably many genuine left leavists, for others the choice does look suspiciously like democracy as entertainment.

 

[Pickman's model]

Note, i said SWP style, the Peoples Assembly could easily say, have set up food banks across the UK, apparently that is according to certain Trots, "social work"

Now reply to my point if you will.

You are like a broken pencil

 

[Smokeandsteam]

And one of the features of the campaign has been the outpouring of contemptuous, anti-democratic sentiment from liberal MC Remainers. Just wouldn't have expected Mason to be part of it.

I've got some time for Paul Mason but on the referendum he's started off in the wrong place and gone downhill from there. This is a new low however.

 

[bi0boy]

I just don't want to queue in the non-EU passport lanes when I fly from the UK to other European airports.

They usually have much shorter queues as almost everyone has an EU passport nowadays.

 

[belboid]

I've got some time for Paul Mason but on the referendum he's started off in the wrong place and gone downhill from there. This is a new low however.

actually, he started from a pretty spot on place (actual left leave, no concessions to the racists) and has driven rapidly worse and worse. At least Owen Jones only held two positions, PM has gone through all three now

 

[belboid]

hmm, apparently when told that 'You'll be voting with Thomas Mair, I'll be voting with Jo Cox' it isn't the done thing to reply 'I doubt whether of them are voting, tbh'

 

[mauvais]

Not really; in fact most positive social change has taken place in the aftermath of large scale conflict, disasters or technological advancements that disrupt the usual order of things. Long-term stability usually results in worsening conditions as costs (edit: to business etc) inexorably rise and those in charge seek to bring about means by which they can be reduced.

My phrasing was crap. So yes, after the crisis but not during it. So for example in the post-WWII rebuilding era, lots of it, but certainly less so during, other than concessions out of necessity. Quite the price to pay though.

 

[Red O]

I've got some time for Paul Mason but on the referendum he's started off in the wrong place and gone downhill from there. This is a new low however.

And look who approves of it:

 

[Treacle Toes]

Hmm...

The progressive argument for leaving the EU is not being heard

This kind of call and response thing with articles could go on all day...

 

[mauvais]

Projected votes in Manchester show the three most wealthiest boroughs will vote Remain , the poorest Exit
EU poll: How will Greater Manchester vote in the referendum?

I don't doubt the correlation but the measure is a bit blunt. Some deprived areas in those greens, and vice versa. I live in part of the Bury one, a Labour seat, and there's a few EU flags flying from houses. </anecdotes>

 

[butchersapron]

But he makes the valid observation that with capital & the media split or ambivalent, they obviously do not perceive any existential threat from either outcome...merely the possible inconvenience of having to conduct their accumulation in a second-best political context.
Although there are undeniably many genuine left leavists, for others the choice does look suspiciously like democracy as entertainment.

The way that he does it and the content of that happening, he's not in the game.

 

[butchersapron]

But he makes the valid observation that with capital & the media split or ambivalent, they obviously do not perceive any existential threat from either outcome...merely the possible inconvenience of having to conduct their accumulation in a second-best political context.
Although there are undeniably many genuine left leavists, for others the choice does look suspiciously like democracy as entertainment.

The media is spilt, capital is as well right?

 

[The39thStep]

It's also shit.

Actually I quite liked it.
Here's the another analysis of remain and exit voting profiles
politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The referendum: The affluent versus the non-affluent summed up in two Populus polling charts

 

[The39thStep]

shut the fuck up about the SWP. you're the only person left in the country who even remembers who they were.

Can't make my mind up whether the boards are better or worse without the SWP, socialist party, workers power and WSM .

 

[brogdale]

Actually I quite liked it.

No acknowledgement of a left exit position, though.

 

[The39thStep]

I don't doubt the correlation but the measure is a bit blunt. Some deprived areas in those greens, and vice versa. I live in part of the Bury one, a Labour seat, and there's a few EU flags flying from houses. </anecdotes>

Yup sketchy data , the interesting issue for me will be to what extent if any the Labour Remain campaign has in working class areas

 

[butchersapron]

I don't doubt the correlation but the measure is a bit blunt. Some deprived areas in those greens, and vice versa. I live in part of the Bury one, a Labour seat, and there's a few EU flags flying from houses. </anecdotes>

Missionaries.

 

[The39thStep]

No acknowledgement of a left exit position, though.

Nope and it's interesting that Class Wars academic has taken an abstain position as have some people around the IWCA

 

[Red O]

Edit: fuck it, can't get link to work

 

[brogdale]

The media is spilt, capital is as well right?

Could form the basis of one, or more (?) threads.
Maybe sloppy thinking on my part...but print media are split, right? Capital...who really knows?
My view (as you know) is that fincap doesn't really mind whether they exert power through debt over national or supra-national states.

 

[brogdale]

Nope and it's interesting that Class Wars academic has taken an abstain position as have some people around the IWCA

Yeah, I'm abstain...but I can see why left exiteers would see Mason's piece as a sell-out.

 

[steeplejack]

Nope and it's interesting that Class Wars academic has taken an abstain position as have some people around the IWCA

I take it those hoping for a referendum-special issue of Mayday magazine will be disappointed?

 

[killer b]

Capital doesn't appear to be split tbf. Capital is remain all the way - that there's some individual capitalist who've seen 'opportunities' in leave is a different matter.

 

[The39thStep]

I take it those hoping for a referendum-special issue of Mayday magazine will be disappointed?

Might be a Glastonbury edition to capture the hinterland vote .