Brexit - impact on musicians, touring and the music/events industry

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

Gear + sound engineer, yes. Some places won't let you use their gear unless their enginer is in charge, which is understandable

Never ever had this. Your experience (as documented on this thread) is something completely alien to mine.
It is definitely not the norm at all for regular low level to mid bands (and beyond).


Edit.
I see now you mentioned the grovesner and appear to be talking about booking and promoting your own gigs which is something different and already covered by rutabowa above.

 

[killer b]

We're at the point of philanthropy as the solution to governmental failings I see. Good to see things are moving on.

 

[rutabowa]

The thread is about ''the industry'' which is not the same thing at all. It contributes a huge part of UK PLC's income and is also responsible for much of the cultural capital Britain and Britishness carries. It is a fantastically wealthy industry that disproportionately benefits extremely wealthy individuals (financially and socially wealthy) so maybe now is the time for some philanthropy from the many, many millionaires who have done so well over the years out of ''the industry''.

I think the thread is about musicians, touring AND the industry... so three seperate, sometimes but not always linked things. Noone on this thread is a millionaire (off of music anyway, my professional poker career is a seperate issue as I keep the winnings in a tax haven outside the eu)

 

[mojo pixy]

We're at the point of philanthropy as the solution to governmental failings I see. Good to see things are moving on.

Call it patronage then. As far as music goes, patronage has a long and illustrious history.

OK now I am on the wind up. But ffs, stop being so reactive.

 

[rutabowa]

Emotions are high, because a lot of people have lost their livelihood. It is 100% understandable.

 

[mojo pixy]

Yes. It's shit. But that's covid, not brexit.

 

[killer b]

Emotions are high, because a lot of people have lost their livelihood. It is 100% understandable.

they just need to persuade Ed Sheeran to give them some money by the looks of it.

 

[mojo pixy]

they just need to persuade Ed Sheeran to give them some money by the looks of it.

Ed Sheeran should be buying venues and furloughing the staff. Setting up online 'venues' and helping promoters put on shows. Enough promoters and venues helped him get where he is. Nobody should have to ask.

 

[rutabowa]

Covid is def the worst bit right now, but if people who are actually making their current living off music say that brexit might also make it even worse then I think we have to at least listen to them too. Because, it definitely might have an effect. And this thread is for factual news about what those effects will be as it develops....

 

[rutabowa]

they just need to persuade Ed Sheeran to give them some money by the looks of it.

Fuck that, my poker winnings are mine I'm not giving it away to anyone.

 

[pesh]

this thread is for factual news about what those effects will be as it develops

 

[killer b]

Ed Sheeran should be buying venues and furloughing the staff. Setting up online 'venues' and helping promoters put on shows. Enough promoters and venues helped him get where he is. Nobody should have to ask.

Access to the arts as a plaything for the rich, gotcha.

 

[mojo pixy]

Access to the arts as a plaything for the rich, gotcha.

Oh come on, I've spent half this thread going on about DIY and how that's a way forward for everyone if they want. The Music Industry is already a plaything for the rich ffs, that's one reason why DIY and underground scenes exist at all. I think you're just posting to be contrary, I should let you know I've stopped doing that now.

 

[editor]

Seeing as the one of the very last things I want hear in the street is a solo drummer banging away, there's no way I'd want to inflict that on others.

Not every musician has the confidence, ability or opportunity to busk - and right now no one can busk anyway because of the covid laws.

The Grosvenor for example used to charge one fee for using the back room, a larger fee for use of PA (which included paying an engineer)

But that's because you're hiring the venue out. I've never heard of a promoter booking a band and then charging them for the use of the PA. I've certainly never done it and I've put on hundreds of gigs in small and big venues.

 

[klang]

Just to note that a lot of the 'diy' and 'self organised' venues in small and mid sized towns in Germany mentioned upthread are subsidised by councils. Eg a venue is provided by the council, rent is covered and an operational budget is agreed on. Some might have social workers onsite, but the running of the venue is left to the users.
Governments taking responsibility for the development of the smaller scale arts can pay off. I don't see much of that in the UK atm.

 

[killer b]

Oh come on, I've spent half this thread going on about DIY and how that's a way forward for everyone if they want.

It isn't though. I know an absolute shitload of DIY musicians, and every single one of them has a day job. I know a shitload of DIY promoters, and all of them fund their promotion hobby out of their day job's wages. The DIY scene is great, really good fun and everyone's cool and that, but no-one is making any money, and haven't done for as long as I've been involved.

 

[editor]

As Pickman's model pointed out, buskers have earned about as much as live touring musicians in recent weeks, that is fuck all, and not because of Brexit but because of Covid. However, the completely insincere question style is the usual editor snideyness, digging at a poster in personal ways because you own a discussion board and get a kick out of needling and bullying then banning strangers online. It passes the days I guess.

"...digging at a poster in personal ways because you own a discussion board and get a kick out of needling and bullying then banning strangers online. It passes the days I guess."

No, this is really unacceptable and unpleasantly personal. No poster has been threatened, warned or banned in this thread neither has there been any mod input from me at all.

I'm arguing with you because you've been posting up a load of ignorant nonsense about touring Europe, and have been doing that Tory thing suggesting that it's all my fault that I'm not earning money from music now because I just haven't been entrepreneurial enough.

My main income is DJing, performing and writing about music. I haven't earned a fucking penny since March 2020 and right now there's no hope in sight of me getting any work.

To have you keep on insisting that there's actually "fuckloads" of ways I should be making money now is patronising and insulting.

 

[rutabowa]

Just to note that a lot of the 'diy' and 'self organised' venues in small and mid sized towns in Germany mentioned upthread are subsidised by councils. Eg a venue is provided by the council, rent is covered and an operational budget is agreed on. Some might have social workers onsite, but the running of the venue is left to the users.
Governments taking responsibility for the development of the smaller scale arts can pay off. I don't see much of that in the UK atm.

Yes, which also means that the gig scene isn't funded by the alcohol industry as it is here, which would probably create massive savings in the health service 20 years down the line if it worked like that here. Or as they put it in germany "english punks, always drunk".

And then, down below the UK, you have the USA, where if you are in a band that takes up any significant amount of time and get ill you probably need to crowdfund your medical bills because you have no health insurance, or just die. So it's not as bad as it could be in the uk

 

[klang]

It isn't though. I know an absolute shitload of DIY musicians, and every single one of them has a day job. I know a shitload of DIY promoters, and all of them fund their promotion hobby out of their day job's wages. The DIY scene is great, really good fun and everyone's cool and that, but no-one is making any money, and haven't done for as long as I've been involved.

in fairness, I know a couple of people doing it professionally by running their own label, pressing up collectors items, building up a fan base over many years and doing shit loads of touring and being their own manager, agent and PR person. They tend to be solo people with a laptop though, so touring costs are a lot lower than a band's would be.
Dunno if this still qualifies as DIY. Also, just because a few people have cracked it doesn't mean the majority of musos can do so if only they put in the effort.

 

[editor]

in fairness, I know a couple of people doing it professionally by running their own label, pressing up collectors items, building up na fan base over many years and doing shit loads of touring and being their own manager, agent and PR person. They tend to be solo people with a laptop though, so touring costs are a lot lower than a band's would be.
Dunno if this still qualifies as DIY. Also, just because a few people have cracked it doesn't mean the majority of musos can do so if only they put in the effort.

If your overheads are low and you manage to get a couple of willing venues on your books, you can scrape a living wage out of it, but, to quote someone else - it's a "fuckload" of work. For the gigs I was doing, I was promoter, PR, flyer designer, photographer, PA installer, ;lighting guy, soundman, drinks server, and DJ.

 

[klang]

that Tory thing suggesting that it's all my fault that I'm not earning money from music now because I just haven't been entrepreneurial enough.

if you are not entrepreneurial enough to make it in the music business you can always retrain as a football coach or boxer.

 

[klang]

Yes, which also means that the gig scene isn't funded by the alcohol industry as it is here, which would probably create massive savings in the health service 20 years down the line if it worked like that here. Or as they put it in germany "english punks, always drunk".

there is still plenty of boozing at gigs in Germany, probably no more or less than anywhere else in Europe.

 

[ska invita]

A long video, but worth it if you want some genuine insight into just how fucking ridiculous it's about to get for trucking companies.

Fuck. Brexit.

from the sound of that theres no role to play for uk haulage, other than maybe dropping loads off with a EU company

 

[mojo pixy]

It isn't though. I know an absolute shitload of DIY musicians, and every single one of them has a day job. I know a shitload of DIY promoters, and all of them fund their promotion hobby out of their day job's wages. The DIY scene is great, really good fun and everyone's cool and that, but no-one is making any money, and haven't done for as long as I've been involved.

But they are playing, writing, sharing and creating culture, having fun and actually breaking even or ending the event with enough money for a week's food shop is more common than losing money (though that can happen too, usually from bad planning or accidents)

I mean, if culture is the point. If grass-roots culture is, in fact what we are concerned about then that's covered. It's OK.

What I believe is the main concern is The Industry becoming unsustainable in its current shape, due to extra costs imposed by Brexit. That's a different point from Culture Will Suffer. Whose culture?

 

[klang]

there is still plenty of boozing at gigs in Germany, probably no more or less than anywhere else in Europe.

cheaper though, mind.
and more backstage
for the band

 

[pesh]

from the sound of that theres no role to play for uk haulage, other than maybe dropping loads off with a EU company

it goes on to explain that the EU have put new regs on EU trucking firms as well that basically fuck all touring and roadshows down to the limited number of drops they can now make as well.

 

[mojo pixy]

"...digging at a poster in personal ways because you own a discussion board and get a kick out of needling and bullying then banning strangers online. It passes the days I guess."

No, this is really unacceptable and unpleasantly personal. No poster has been threatened, warned or banned in this thread neither has there been any mod input from me at all.

I'm arguing with you because you've been posting up a load of ignorant nonsense about touring Europe, and have been doing that Tory thing suggesting that it's all my fault that I'm not earning money from music now because I just haven't been entrepreneurial enough.

My main income is DJing, performing and writing about music. I haven't earned a fucking penny since March 2020 and right now there's no hope in sight of me getting any work.

To have you keep on insisting that there's actually "fuckloads" of ways I should be making money now is patronising and insulting.

Making it all about you now, OK. Next step is a thread ban.

 

[bimble]

What is it that makes someone part of The Industry or not ?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

But they are playing, writing, sharing and creating culture, having fun and actually breaking even or ending the event with enough money for a week's food shop is more common than losing money (though that can happen too, usually from bad planning or accidents)

I mean, if culture is the point. If grass-roots culture is, in fact what we are concerned about then that's covered. It's OK.

What I believe is the main concern is The Industry becoming unsustainable in its current shape, due to extra costs imposed by Brexit. That's a different point from Culture Will Suffer. Whose culture?

Everyone's culture suffers if you reduce opportunites for mixing and sharing ideas.

 

[mojo pixy]

Everyone's culture suffers if you reduce opportunites for mixing and sharing ideas.

Right, but that's not what's going to happen.

What is it that makes someone part of The Industry or not ?

Is it a question of identity? Who knows.