I have done elsewhere on urban. I don’t think this thread is really the place for it. There’s proper discussion happening here.
Brexit - impact on musicians, touring and the music/events industry
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littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
I think that's open to debate.
I think LBJ just disagrees with you. he can do that without experiencing cognitive dissonance. TBH if anyone on the thread in exhibiting the classic signs of experiencing it, it's... not him.
Well, I’ve certainly been learning things about the music touring stuff. It had never even crossed my mind before that it was something ordinary people could do.
editor
hiraethified
Which new ways have you monetised your music?
And what lucrative 'new ways and new places' do you suggest that bands should play? You do realise that once small bands step outside the gig circuit, then they'll most likely encounter substantial additional costs because they'll have to start hiring venues or stages, vans, PA systems, soundmen, lights, door staff, bar staff etc etc?
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Sure. There's been interesting stuff in between the mad stuff.
you said on a different thread that your band gets paid at least £300 every gig, and you're already loaded from work anyway iirc, so don't come with that. Check your privilege before talking about "ordinary people".
mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
PA and backline used to depend on the venue IME. Of course larger venues more dedicated to music in particular have everything themselves. Smaller places don't, or didn't use to. I guess nowadays it's possible for any old pub to have a little PA somewhere. Social clubs and like, community halls often have a PA system that's unsuitable for a band to play through anyway.
Whatever, we're not talking about DIY here, or like cover bands who play at weddings etc.
mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
Alright, not cognitive dissonance .. let's call it the moment when the wrongness became too much for me to find a proper response. You know what I mean. I know what I mean. We all know what I mean.
I said £200 not £300. And I wouldn’t want to overstate how many of those we’ve done. I’m not going to Bognor on my music earnings, let alone Berlin
It was COVID that fucked our little band. We’d just in 2019 got ourselves a little local reputation and a few repeat bookings and then it all stopped and the pubs that booked us probably now won’t survive anyway. If it ever kicks off again, it’ll be back to square 1
200,300, both way beyond the average I've ever been paid.
I didn't, and I'm only a little closer now.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
Yep. I'm definitely the wrongest person on this thread.
And the most hysterical.
this is all there is, isn't it?
Seriously? £200 is only £65 each — less after expenses — which isn’t exactly a lot for an evening’s work. Most other bands locally charge multiple times that much for playing a social or wedding.
Here is how the economics of a 10 day diy tour in europe used to work out (approximately): there might be one gig that pays 300/350 or so (Friday and Saturday/festival, then a few at 150, then probably monday or tuesday are going to be between 50 to "zero money but a place to stay and some food" (if you miss out a night you are screwed unless you sleep in the van). You have to pay van hire, ferry and petrol. Obviously those sums don't work out so you pay to get some (NOT TOO MANY) t shirts printed and have a record to sell (maybe £4 profit a pop), which people are far more likely to buy at gigs than online because they just seen you, they are drunk, and you are right there in their face saying BUY THIS NOW OR WE DONT EAT.
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= PROFIT (of about £20, unless you get your money robbed/van breaks down/equipment breaks/speeding ticket/x amount of other unforeseen costs which will inevitably strike if you do it a few times). Hopefully you're rent at home is being covered somehow (e.g. using work holidays to go away)
(fill your pockets with bread rolls and cheese and breakfast, and that is lunch covered. If you are really on a shoe string. and NEVER EAT AT A SERVICE STATION or your margin is instantly gone)
edit: this only works in europe, you have no chance doing a tour like that in the UK currently unless you are already big, the pay is much less and the only reduced cost is ferry, which is minimal, and maybe slightly less on petrol.
Wait, you had to buy your instrument, and pay for a load of rehearsal session to get good...let's not count that, but you will be needing a few sets of guitar strings, few pairs of drumsticks, few spare leads (I never bothered with this bit sorry ATOMIC SUPLEX)
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= PROFIT (of about £20, unless you get your money robbed/van breaks down/equipment breaks/speeding ticket/x amount of other unforeseen costs which will inevitably strike if you do it a few times). Hopefully you're rent at home is being covered somehow (e.g. using work holidays to go away)
(fill your pockets with bread rolls and cheese and breakfast, and that is lunch covered. If you are really on a shoe string. and NEVER EAT AT A SERVICE STATION or your margin is instantly gone)
edit: this only works in europe, you have no chance doing a tour like that in the UK currently unless you are already big, the pay is much less and the only reduced cost is ferry, which is minimal, and maybe slightly less on petrol.
Wait, you had to buy your instrument, and pay for a load of rehearsal session to get good...let's not count that, but you will be needing a few sets of guitar strings, few pairs of drumsticks, few spare leads (I never bothered with this bit sorry ATOMIC SUPLEX)
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editor
hiraethified
The third kick in the nuts from the covid/brexit axis of evil is that not only will gigs abroad become unviable for some small bands, local venues in their own area are fast disappearing too.
Some of the gigs we had postponed from last year have now gone under, so there'll be more bands fighting for fewer venues - and where there's competition, that's usually the cue for 'market forces' to pay the bands even less.
Playing covers for weddings & events pays money. Playing your own music on the british toilet touring circuit does not.
Yes seriously. seriously. You are living in a very privileged situation.
My considered opinion is this is another reason why Brexit is a steaming pile of shite. I'm not blaming those who voted for it for sound reasons. They didn't after all have control over it's execution.
I know Mojo's being a bit tongue in cheak, that's how i'm reading him anyway (The differencial between classical musicians vs others makes no sense though.)
Unless agreements are made to rectify some of these issues, this is a massive damaging bblow. Culturally, economically.
Watching a stream isn't the same as going to a gig and never will be. Allbeit I'd pay to see some gigs on a stream.
I know Mojo's being a bit tongue in cheak, that's how i'm reading him anyway (The differencial between classical musicians vs others makes no sense though.)
Unless agreements are made to rectify some of these issues, this is a massive damaging bblow. Culturally, economically.
Watching a stream isn't the same as going to a gig and never will be. Allbeit I'd pay to see some gigs on a stream.
For 200-300 quid you could book a reasonably well known musician or band - that's how much Martin Carthy cost when I booked him to play a few years ago for example.
Yes really.
My local just for example, does 50 quid gigs. Granted these are free to the punter and usually the performers are solo singer / players. They've had bands occasionly though. There isn't the trade to charge a ticket for these.
mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
Economically, it's hard to argue. On the other hand given the current situation due to covid, any chance to put on shows again when it becomes possible will be a huge relief and extremely wonderful.
Culturally, I strongly disagree.
I don't know how else you'd describe the potential disappearance of a whole range of live shows at a place you can practically get to as not being culturally detrimental. whether it's discovering a support band, new comedian, theatre. I'm on the internet pretty much all day but you can't beat seeing a live gig, chatting to your mates about it, laughing with other people etc.
Open mic nights are another thing. That’s 15 minutes. When you turn up for 3-4 hours plus set up and are responsible for being engaging and professional with the punters as part of a venue’s event, that’s another matter.
The thing is, I’d personally do it for nothing just because I love it but I’ve always had as a principle that I shouldn’t be undercutting those that need the money to live on.
The thing is, I’d personally do it for nothing just because I love it but I’ve always had as a principle that I shouldn’t be undercutting those that need the money to live on.
bimble
floofy
You’re just on a weird little wind up arent you. I don’t think you can seriously think that if It’s too expensive & complicated to travel that’s good, culturally.
mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
As killer b pointed out, there's a massive difference between the experiences of people playing their own stuff, and people playing professionally music that isn't their own compositions - where a good living can be made and for a lot of wedding / party bands etc, Brexit may well not impact them that badly if their market is here anyway. Classical musicians who play for orchestras would, I hope, be included in whatever happens to their ensemble - however, if the ensemble can't travel easily, or can't afford the whole orchestra or whatever, this will be a problem.
Again, the venues will still be there, the audiences will still be there.
Again, the venues will still be there, the audiences will still be there.
It is lovely for you that your principles allow you to get £200 for a gig instead of less.
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