klang
klang
...and I've played enough gigs like that, in UK and Europe. Esp in smaller towns.
Brexit - impact on musicians, touring and the music/events industry
- Thread starter beesonthewhatnow
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klang
klang
and money into rebellion
Sure, that's the ideal - I've found very few promoters / nights who've managed to make this work in practice though. My own checkered history as a promoter is littered with great bands playing to tumbleweeds, and I've got brilliant taste and everyone knows it.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
yeh but the lyric turning rebellion into money comes from a clash song.
klang
klang
tbh I've always missed a cool hang out in London. A place with a beer garden, alternative music / arts venue, open to all, not for profit. A freak dive. With interesting bands from all over the place if you wished to see them.
T Chances was a bit like that, but that's gone too.
editor
hiraethified
To generalise wildly, compared to London, there does seem to be a different attitude with European crowds where they're genuinely interested in checking out bands they may not be familiar with, particularly amongst young people.
My nights in the Albert were like that at the beginning, where I could put on all sorts of strange bands and the crowd would listen with open ears. And then they evicted the squats opposite, the richer, mainstream Instagramming-crowd and tourists replaced the regulars and bands could be completely ignored, whereas DJs playing familiar music would set the place alight. End result - no more gigs, just DJs.
There is (or maybe was) a few places still retaining that vibe in south London but they're increasingly rare.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
The Foundry was a bit like that, too. No beer garden, but you could sit out front if you wanted. Also gone. It's 'luxury' flats now, I think. Lots of good stuff has disappeared from London.
I wonder if places like that are really possible in London anymore - it's something that needs a few quite specific things, one being reasonably cheap rent...
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
The orgy of development that has taken place all through the supposed austerity years has squeezed out a lot of places. None of that development is aimed at anybody other than corporations or the rich, a solely negative contribution to cultural life. Used to be interesting places around Elephant and Castle, too, that have been swept away.
DIY Space for London in Peckham tried to do a euro style place, all volunteer. It was great while it lasted, and it lasted a few years... only closed relatively recently: DIY Space for London - Wikipedia
I think it took an extreeeeme amount of pretty thankless work from one or two people to make it happen though.
Actually I think it ended up closing cos of covid rather than cos it didn't work in normal times though.
I think it took an extreeeeme amount of pretty thankless work from one or two people to make it happen though.
Actually I think it ended up closing cos of covid rather than cos it didn't work in normal times though.
editor
hiraethified
The Queens Head in Stockwell felt like a true scene of its own until its inevitable chem-fuelled demise.
Parts of that scene were living on in places like the OId Dispensary, Easycome and The Windmill before Covid hit.
klang
klang
it was. See also Passing Clouds.
One interesting new-ish one is Post Bar in Totts. Loved it there in between lock downs. Kids, dogs and bbqs in the beer garden during the day, gigs and club at night.
No idea what it's like for bands though.
editor
hiraethified
Yes, you often find that it's one or two people keeping everything together and as soon as they go/lose interest, its curtains.
Often to nearly always! But I think what was unique about this place was that the person who basically started it did put a whole commitee system and training in place so that when she left it actually could carry on with different people, which is pretty amazing. and also made sure it was safe/not overrun with creeps/accessible etc. A lot more work at the start though. And not everyone's bag tbh, even i found it a bit "holier than thou" but better that than unsafe etc
mojo pixy
שיר חדש
Great space, but a conspiraloon shadow reared its head there too.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
yeh i only went there once but there was a 'loon atmosphere
The old T Chances same thing... where you get old anarcho punk types unfortunately you also get conspiracy theories.
That's one thing that 100% would not have happened at DIY space.
It’s not just London on that score. The whole south-east seriously lacks mid-range venues to hire at reasonable prices. I was on the committee of a local orchestra and, basically, the only places we could perform in were churches. Small venues didn’t have a big enough stage and then you were looking at 700 seater auditoriums costing over a grand to hire. We lost money on every performance anyway (the player fees subsidised the audience rather than the other way around!) — no way could we afford over £1000 to play a concert. We needed a 200 seater theatre with a decent stage for £200-400, but they virtually don’t exist. Only churches, which are horrible for audiences to sit in for over an hour, but
mojo pixy
שיר חדש
Now it occurs to me, that mural that so taxed Jeremy Corbyn a few years ago was very near Passing Clouds. It appeared IIRC around the time PC closed. I was never 100% sure it was done by hands connected to PC but having spent a fair amount of time there for a few years before, I have my suspicions.
/off-topic, sorry
/off-topic, sorry
klang
klang
doesnt surprise me at all tbh
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Some churches are good venues. I've been to a few gigs at St Pancras Old Church. Great venue.It’s not just London on that score. The whole south-east seriously lacks mid-range venues to hire at reasonable prices. I was on the committee of a local orchestra and, basically, the only places we could perform in were churches. Small venues didn’t have a big enough stage and then you were looking at 700 seater auditoriums costing over a grand to hire. We lost money on every performance anyway (the player fees subsidised the audience rather than the other way around!) — no way could we afford over £1000 to play a concert. We needed a 200 seater theatre with a decent stage for £200-400, but they virtually don’t exist. Only churches, which are horrible for audiences to sit in for over an hour, but
The whole country lacks mid-range venues to hire at reasonable prices. And small, and large ones - It's a problem - much of the creative infrastructure of the country has disappeared, and especially over the last 10 years or so.It’s not just London on that score. The whole south-east seriously lacks mid-range venues to hire at reasonable prices. I was on the committee of a local orchestra and, basically, the only places we could perform in were churches. Small venues didn’t have a big enough stage and then you were looking at 700 seater auditoriums costing over a grand to hire. We lost money on every performance anyway (the player fees subsidised the audience rather than the other way around!) — no way could we afford over £1000 to play a concert. We needed a 200 seater theatre with a decent stage for £200-400, but they virtually don’t exist. Only churches, which are horrible for audiences to sit in for over an hour, but
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Honest answer? (as a punter at least)
2, 1, 4, 3
Wavering over whether to put 1. first.
(I'm not totally sure what an anti-fun woke room would be like. Not sure I've been in one.)
mojo pixy
שיר חדש
how bleak is that picture? fuck.
It's dawned on me recently that one of my very fave venues, the Golden Lion in Todmorden, is probably one from the second group - the landlord is a man of many, many conspiracy theories: as yet I've seen nothing explicitly antisemitic, but you can be sure they're in there. I think he might even be a flat earther.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Do actual flat-earthers exist?
mojo pixy
שיר חדש
In Todmorden that's quite a feat of, eh, willing suspension of disbelief. I don't remember it being especially flat.
klang
klang
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