Brexit - impact on musicians, touring and the music/events industry

[klang]

anarcho community with antisemitic conspiracy theories

no such thing btw

 

[han]

Actually I think it ended up closing cos of covid rather than cos it didn't work in normal times though.

Yes - covid is the reason, though they are hoping to find another venue once the situation allows.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

The whole country lacks mid-range venues to hire at reasonable prices. And small, and large ones - It's a problem - much of the creative infrastructure of the country has disappeared, and especially over the last 10 years or so.

The depressing state of venues in this country is a huge soapbox topic of mine. As many things do nowadays, it almost always comes back to scummy landlords demanding exorbitant rates and/or gentrification of city areas.

A few years back myself and the owner of The Victoria (an established small venue - 100 capacity, local bands with the odd surprise bigger name) did a huge amount of work with the aim to establish a genuinely independent mid size venue in the city centre. Somewhere around 250 - 350 capacity, with the aim of at least 4 nights a week of live bands, with DJ/social/arts events also. He had the capital, I had the promotion contacts and could have supplied a quality PA with a pool of engineers etc

We visited god knows how many possible sites, drew up plans, and every single time it came to a dead end because the sheer cost of simply being in the building made the finances collapse. Or alternatively some cunt had built/was about to build a block of "luxury" flats next door so noise issues would have it closed down within a week.

It's maddening.

 

[xenon]

Do actual flat-earthers exist?

They have conferences and everything.

 

[editor]

And here's what the PRS have come up with:

PRS for Music launches Online Live Concert licence for small-scale livestreamed gigs

New portal allows easy licence purchase for those wanting to stage or host an online live concert or gig in the UK.

www.prsformusic.com

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

And here's what the PRS have come up with:

PRS for Music launches Online Live Concert licence for small-scale livestreamed gigs

New portal allows easy licence purchase for those wanting to stage or host an online live concert or gig in the UK.

www.prsformusic.com

Oh for fucks sake.

 

[mojo pixy]

It's not a fixed tariff, it depends on the turnover of the event.

How much does it cost?
For live events with revenue below £500:
Licences are obtained per event.

Revenue	Licence cost + VAT
Less than £250	£22.50
£251 - £500	£45
£501 or more	Contact us for more info

Without any explanation as to the relevance of the linked content it's hard to know what the specific objections are.

Don't the PRS collect and pay out songwriting royalties to songwriters?

 

[killer b]

45 quid is nearly 20% of turnover if you've taken 251 quid on your stream. It's a ridiculous sum.

 

[editor]

45 quid is nearly 20% of turnover if you've taken 251 quid on your stream. It's a ridiculous sum, particularly given how hard it is for small bands to attract much of an audience online (I watched some excellent performers tonight on a free stream and there was only a handful of people tuning in).

Charging a default £22.50 for what could be just a handful of people watching is ridiculous too - and it's been pointed out that many of these online gigs are put on for charities or to support a venue.

 

[editor]

Another piece here pointing out how even merch sales are going to be fucked

Think of an average 4-person band with a driver. Now add their travel and hotel costs to that and compare against the amount of what you’re likely to receive for each show. It won’t take a great mathematician to work out that it not only doesn’t add up but will leave you severely out of pocket. So ‘what about selling merchandise?’ I hear you say. As a result of Brexit, bands now have to list every single bit of equipment they’re carrying over and pay upfront tax on merchandise they don’t even know they are going to sell.

And as for the 'just play more gigs in the UK' argument:

So,” I hear you say… “why not concentrate and focus your efforts in in the UK?”

Well, in the UK, the scene is not looking that much better. There’s hardly anywhere to play or practice in the capital thanks to the practice of the developers. A lot of venues in the UK who were struggling anyway, are now in danger of shutting their doors forever thanks to the UK Government’s incompetent mishandling of the Covid crisis.

And the idea of not touring but still trying to sell records to fans in Europe is now a disaster.

Aside from the ‘touring’ fiasco, what’s not been widely reported is that selling records has now become an overnight administrative and financial nightmare.

Reports of excessive ‘handling charges’ for senders (£8) and customs tax charges for the receivers of such goods (£16 for a 12” single/album) are now coming to light, and has adversely impacted and perhaps damaged the reputation of UK sellers forever. This is on top of ever-increasing postage charges.

A 12” vinyl record sells on average for around £14 to £20. To post this item to mainland Europe will cost around £10. Add to this an £8 ‘handling charge’ and a £16 import tax, customers are going to be looking at paying anywhere in the region of £45 to £55 for a 12” vinyl record to make it viable.

The fact is vinyl is expensive anyway, but no-one’s gonna pay in excess of £40 for a record especially when they can stream it for fuck-all on Spotify (don’t even get me started on Spotify).

OPINION: Touring, P&P And Paperwork : How Brexit Is Devastating For British Music - God Is In The TV

Regardless of what the likes of Roger Daltrey are telling you, Brexit has really fucked over UK musicians BIG TIME! These impacts have been covered elsewhere

www.godisinthetvzine.co.uk

 

[ska invita]

I imagine it'll be the same with Discogs, both for selling into the EU and buying from the EU?
I used to buy records from Ernies in the USA, which sells reggae really cheap compared to UK and still worked out economical with the US shipping rates, but 50% chance your order might often arrive with a massive Tax bill attached.

On Discogs I've bought lots of tunes from the EU as surprisingly often tunes are only available from EU sellers. It has to be something I really want though as the postage is expensive. I think the additional tax on top would stop me doing it.
I've stopped buying vinyl anyway, but like all these things it will have an impact on others.

ETA: Just looked at a few EU listings, I dont think anyone has updated their pricing information to specifically talk about the UK but many have an EU and non EU (Norway for example) price, but import tax is not something that would show up an a listing as that's put on my the post office I think Im right in saying

 

[mojo pixy]

I'm surprised there's not more support here for an organization that pays songwriters. I'm also pretty sure there are ways around paying this (how do they know how big an audience is? I imagine it's self-reported). It seems the PRS is trying to help music writers and producers to keep some income after license collections from brick-and-mortar premises have reduced considerably due to the pandemic and places being closed.

Maybe for fund raisers and charity dos they give discounted rates or rebates? Got to be worth calling them to ask, no?

I mean. We want musicians to keep getting paid after all. The PRS are doing that.

 

[mojo pixy]

OPINION: Touring, P&P And Paperwork : How Brexit Is Devastating For British Music - God Is In The TV

Regardless of what the likes of Roger Daltrey are telling you, Brexit has really fucked over UK musicians BIG TIME! These impacts have been covered elsewhere

www.godisinthetvzine.co.uk

The Beatles were like a thousand other wannabe bands until they got on that boat to mainland Europe.

They only became as good as they did through playing every night in Hamburg.

Happened iirc before the EU, before Britain even joined the common market.

 

[killer b]

No objection to the PRS if the charges are reasonable - bricks and mortar charges are like 5% of door taking though. 20% isn't tenable.

 

[mojo pixy]

As far as I can tell they will believe the audience numbers promoters provide. I haven't applied for one but from my looking so far, they have no way to check audience numbers. They may have built that in to the pricing scheme; I probably would.

 

[killer b]

It'll be fine, just lie is your answer?

 

[killer b]

I guess you've never had to have any dealings with the PRS then

 

[mojo pixy]

No, I would be honest. But Let's not pretend everyone will, or will even bother to apply for a licence.

 

[killer b]

I think most people won't bother applying for a license, and they also won't bother doing the live stream at all.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

I'm surprised there's not more support here for an organization that pays songwriters. I'm also pretty sure there are ways around paying this (how do they know how big an audience is? I imagine it's self-reported). It seems the PRS is trying to help music writers and producers to keep some income after license collections from brick-and-mortar premises have reduced considerably due to the pandemic and places being closed.

Maybe for fund raisers and charity dos they give discounted rates or rebates? Got to be worth calling them to ask, no?

I mean. We want musicians to keep getting paid after all. The PRS are doing that.

Perhaps you could go read the views currently all over the place about this from people it will impact explaining why this new charge is a bad thing.

But then again, you’ve ignored everyone on this thread who are in a similar position, so maybe don’t bother.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

I think most people won't bother applying for a license, and they also won't bother doing the live stream at all.

Streams are already being cancelled because of this.

 

[mojo pixy]

I would add that for online shows, the overheads for promoters are far, far less than having to pay a venue, pay for transport, buy a rider, buy decorations, etc, etc, etc, as you know the costs for putting on a live event quickly mount up. Online won't have all that.

 

[killer b]

It's like watching a child smear his own shit on his bedroom walls. Have you considered just stopping?

 

[mojo pixy]

Perhaps you could go read the views currently all over the place about this from people it will impact explaining why this new charge is a bad thing.

I get why people think this charge is a bad thing. People hate change, and they hate charges.
It seems the PRS are trying to make something out of a shitty situation that will ensure songwriters don't lose out too much.

I can understand the conflict here, but it seems there's a lot of entrenchment making that worse.

 

[mojo pixy]

It's like watching a child smear his own shit on his bedroom walls. Have you considered just stopping?

great stuff. your parents must be proud.
musicians and their special fucking needs and egos. what a surprise nobody gives a fuck.

 

[mojo pixy]

At the moment this thread looking for sympathy has so far alienated one potential ally, so well done there

 

[killer b]

Mate, you've spent the last few days trolling a load of people who've spent a year with no income - you're not their ally.

 

[mojo pixy]

I was, before i got hit with a load of insulting bullshit. Good luck with the new arrangements! Maybe see you on the shop floor sometime eh?

 

[killer b]

Maybe see you on the shop floor sometime eh?

what does this mean?

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

I get why people think this charge is a bad thing. People hate change, and they hate charges.
It seems the PRS are trying to make something out of a shitty situation that will ensure songwriters don't lose out too much.

I can understand the conflict here, but it seems there's a lot of entrenchment making that worse.

The PRS serve big name artists very well indeed.

Again, try talking to some grassroots performers and promoters for their view on this issue.