Brexit - impact on musicians, touring and the music/events industry

[rutabowa]

the venues will still be there

I severely doubt that.

 

[kabbes]

It is lovely for you that your principles allow you to get £200 for a gig instead of less.

Fewer gigs though, no doubt. A handful instead of consistent.

 

[killer b]

Again, the venues will still be there, the audiences will still be there.

the venues are increasingly not there

 

[rutabowa]

Fewer gigs though, no doubt. A handful instead of consistent.

PLEASE STOP TALKING

 

[kabbes]

PLEASE STOP TALKING

I genuinely don’t understand what I’ve done to upset you, but fine.

 

[mojo pixy]

I severely doubt that.

the venues are increasingly not there

Ah well, yes. But that's not because of Brexit.
I seem to remember a great outcry over the death of culture that was going to happen after the CJA came in. I joined in it. and since, the CJA has shit all over me and my friends just about all our adult lives. But it certainly hasn't killed culture.

 

[rutabowa]

I genuinely don’t understand what I’ve done to upset you, but fine.

You don't seem to recognise what a privileged position you are in, and then you also say that the privileged position you are in is because of your "principles". It is a proper wind up.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I don't know how else you'd describe the potential disappearance of a whole range of live shows at a place you can practically get to as not being culturally detrimental. whether it's discovering a support band, new comedian, theatre. I'm on the internet pretty much all day but you can't beat seeing a live gig, chatting to your mates about it, laughing with other people etc.

Yeah, I hate to think what's going to be left. I'm out of the loop with this stuff nowadays but when I think of the places I used to help out at, do spoken word things at, etc, many of them had already gone due to the disappearance of squat venues from the UK, hiking of rates and rents, etc, and many more will be gone now. It's bleak.

A total collapse of the economy could open up new spaces perhaps, but I doubt we'll see that. If anything all I see is yet more commodification and monetisation - what was already bad will get even worse. That's what I see when I try to book venues for martial arts events. Rates have shot up during 'austerity' and forget seeking help from councils - they just see your group as an opportunity to make a few quid. The contrast I see with Europe and the help all kinds of groups get for events in places like the Netherlands or Germany or Poland is stark. It's not about how rich the country is either - some of the poorer EU countries are way better for this than the UK.

 

[kabbes]

You don't seem to recognise what a privileged position you are in, and then you also say that the privileged position you are in is because of your "principles". It is a proper wind up.

I think you think we got a lot more than we got. We managed to do something serious about once a month (and things for free in between as promotion). It’s hardly being Coldplay.

 

[rutabowa]

I think you think we got a lot more than we got. We managed to do something serious about once a month (and things for free in between as promotion). It’s hardly being Coldplay.

NO, that is not the privileged position I am talking about.

I think what it is, is that this discussion is just a totally abstract intellectual one for you, whereas for a lot of people it has real effects on their life like not being able to pay rent.

I understand you don't mean it like that, but that is why it is a wind up for me.

 

[BassJunkie]

52% isn't a "VERY LARGE PERCENTAGE" in anyone's book, come on MickiQ !

I haven't had a chance to read the whole thread, perhaps somebody's beaten me to this, but 17,410,742 people voted for Brexit.

Out of 66,000,000.

So around 25% of people.

75% didn't vote for Brexit.

Yes, admittedly some of the 66 million are children. But the 52% is a complete and utter misrepresentation. It is 52% of those who voted. Which in itself is a subset of the electorate.

And, I would wager a good proportion of those 17,410,742 twats keenly voting to remove 'freedom of movement' meant other people's, not their own.

I rarely get angry but witnessing Patel gleefully telling me she's removed my freedom of movement, and seeing others celebrating the loss of their own freedom of movement makes me, let's say sad.

The final straw was in the paper yesterday. The government are offering 2000 Euros to EU nationals if they leave the country.

I don't recognise this country anymore and don't really want to live here any longer. <\rant>

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

Just to note that a lot of the 'diy' and 'self organised' venues in small and mid sized towns in Germany mentioned upthread are subsidised by councils. Eg a venue is provided by the council, rent is covered and an operational budget is agreed on. Some might have social workers onsite, but the running of the venue is left to the users.
Governments taking responsibility for the development of the smaller scale arts can pay off. I don't see much of that in the UK atm.

That's very true and something I forgot about. I have definitely been treated well in Germany (and other places in Europe) because of this and at first wondered how they made it work.

 

[rutabowa]

That's very true and something I forgot about. I have definitely been treated well in Germany (and other places in Europe) because of this and at first wondered how they made it work.

Yes because they blatantly weren't paying rent out of the money they made from our shows ha

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

cheaper though, mind.
and more backstage
for the band

That's very true.

 

[killer b]

Yes because they blatantly weren't paying rent out of the money they made from our shows ha

this is the thing - generally on these kinds of threads people will also be critical of venues, saying they should pay musicians more etc etc when for the most part, the venues that are left are already having to subsidise bands playing original material from other stuff they're doing (covers bands, zumba classes, etc).

There is a very large gap between the reality of the live music scene and most people's perceptions of it.

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

Yes because they blatantly weren't paying rent out of the money they made from our shows ha

Yes true.
What was the deal with that weird place in Italy that seemed to be rolling in money?

 

[rutabowa]

Yes true.
What was the deal with that weird place in Italy that seemed to be rolling in money?

pretty sure that was gangster shit (not joking).

I definitely would not fuck with the guy who put on that anyway oof.

 

[rutabowa]

Big up the mafia, philanthropically supporting the DIY band scene. Money got to come from somewhere.

 

[rutabowa]

organised crime also ran that venue in tokyo right?

 

[rutabowa]

So yeh that is one route we could go I guess.... popular music has a long and noble tradition of being interlinked with organised crime.

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

organised crime also ran that venue in tokyo right?

I guess I shouldn't name names but yes, that 'one' (not all of them). They came out of nowhere, never seen them before and a very different 'vibe' from everyone else that seemed to be running the venue. Scary stuff.

 

[killer b]

So yeh that is one route we could go I guess.... popular music has a long and noble tradition of being interlinked with organised crime.

A day job is a day job. Can't be fussy.

 

[rutabowa]

No please don't name names!

It is a big point tho really, the sums just don't add up for a lot of music event stuff, the equipment etc is too expensive. So it's either already-rich people, government funding, or crime.

 

[rutabowa]

A day job is a day job. Can't be fussy.

Gucci Mane always used to be on about how he didn't need any money from music, he made his wedge on the streets and used that to pay for the fun time in the studio, and I'm sure that was true for him at the start.... rap music is just being honest and direct about how the system works, as always.

 

[Pickman's model]

So yeh that is one route we could go I guess.... popular music has a long and noble tradition of being interlinked with organised crime.

from the likes of frank sinatra on one side of the law while elvis presley was on the other

 

[rutabowa]

from the likes of frank sinatra on one side of the law while elvis presley was on the other

...and ironically the clash being on the "already rich" side rather than fighting the law.

 

[klang]

this is the thing - generally on these kinds of threads people will also be critical of venues, saying they should pay musicians more etc etc when for the most part, the venues that are left are already having to subsidise bands playing original material from other stuff they're doing (covers bands, zumba classes, etc).

There is a very large gap between the reality of the live music scene and most people's perceptions of it.

coming back to the German model - these venues don't rely on bands bringing in punters. People come to hang out anyway, if there is a band playing they like it's just an extra bonus.
A promoter who is into smaller bands should always assume that the band won't bring anybody at all. They should assume that punters come because they like their night and trust their musical taste.

 

[klang]

No please don't name names!

It is a big point tho really, the sums just don't add up for a lot of music event stuff, the equipment etc is too expensive. So it's either already-rich people, government funding, or crime.

sponsorships / endorsements.

 

[Pickman's model]

...and ironically the clash being on the "already rich" side rather than fighting the law.

yeh well i suppose it's easier to turn rebellion into money when you start off with a bit of dosh

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

No please don't name names!

It is a big point tho really, the sums just don't add up for a lot of music event stuff, the equipment etc is too expensive. So it's either already-rich people, government funding, or crime.

In the case of the 'tokyo' place it was supposedly money laundering and a 'hidden' part of the venue (upstairs I think) being a base of operations.

I'd love to see music venues and arts projects take off under community funding and youth aid projects, but I just doubt it will ever work. Two major projects that I know of (maybe more) have been tried in Croydon, but they eventually failed without ever really taking off.