Brexit - impact on musicians, touring and the music/events industry

[rutabowa]

Yes, there are some, and they may. If anyone from such a band wants to post here I'll be interested to read what they have to say. Even if it's You're a prick shut up. Like I've never heard that before

That describes me as I said.

I'd say our equipment was worth maybe 1000£ in total, scrabbled together. Probably way less actually as some was borrowed. We were lucky enough to find a tour driver/manager/merch arranger who believed in us so was willing to front the van/ferry money and get the merch done and take money after the tour so noone in the band paid anything before. As he had a gap between his more well paid tours.

 

[editor]

I'm not being obtuse, I'm actually looking at how some people might salvage something from it. Playing more shows in the UK or (haha yeah) busking might not work for everyone, but ffs I've seen a string quartet busking, I've seen groups of drummers busking with dancers, I've seen a balkan jazz trio busking, I've seen a harp player, clarinet players, flute players, a barbershop quartet, and someone playing beats through an iPad and amp while two friends threw fire about. Oh, and cunts playing guitars. Then there are online shows, collaborations, Patreon, Kickstarter. Or there are fuckloads of other ways to make a living, they just don't come with the warm glow of love from a roomful of strangers.

If its so easy, perhaps you could share how much money you've made from such activities in the past month?

 

[mojo pixy]

You've just described the venue's costs. I thought you were talking about small bands and such bands very, very rarely are expected to bring along an entire PA system to every gig. And 10k split between four or five people is hardly a fortune anyway. It's the price of a car.

I am quite amazed by your persistence here. You've never toured Europe, and as a result you know very little/nothing about how such tours work and you don't understand why touring is integral to merchandise sales, yet here you are shouting over people who do have such experience.

I'm not shouting over anyone, there's a discussion happening. Opinions are being shared.
The way you make little digs at posters would be bad enough if you weren't a moderator, but you are, so wind your neck in.

If its so easy, perhaps you could share how much money you've made from such activities in the past month?

Nice. See?

That describes me as I said.

And I've been reading your posts with interest.

 

[editor]

That describes me as I said.

I'd say our equipment was worth maybe 1000£ in total, scrabbled together. Probably way less actually as some was borrowed. We were lucky enough to find a tour driver/manager/merch arranger who believed in us so was willing to front the van and get the merch done and take money after the tour so noone in the band paid anything before. As he had a gap between his more well paid tours.

When I started promoting gigs at the Prince Albert, I bought a small functional PA system/mixer and bought/blagged workable backline, all for about £1,000 which immediately started paying for itself though hire costs. Bands were happy to go the gigs for expenses because they got promoted, played to a packed house and had enough beer to get pissed and everyone was happy. This notion that you need loads of money to put on gigs or tour anywhere really is rubbish.

 

[The39thStep]

I get paid a wage from the band and all fares and hotels and meals are paid for me, so it's not something I'm really concerned with, to be honest.

You might be able to get some tax relief on the fares and wages ?

 

[Steel Icarus]

Played some gigs around the turn of the century and believe you me the gear was shite. But it would have been enough to go on tour with (played two gigs outside our hometown). Borrowed vocal pa, amps, no kind of mixing desk, played pubs.

 

[editor]

You might be able to get some tax relief on the fares and wages ?

All my fares are paid for by the band and I'm really not interested in any kind of additional tax faffing as it would make me very miserable! It's hardly big money anyway.

 

[editor]

Played some gigs around the turn of the century and believe you me the gear was shite. But it would have been enough to go on tour with (played two gigs outside our hometown). Borrowed vocal pa, amps, no kind of mixing desk, played pubs.

I was helping a friend put on live shows at the Dogstar a couple of years ago. We had to provide a backline as costs were tight, and I managed to find a full kit - with cymbals - for £50 and it was absolutely fine!

 

[mojo pixy]

I used to have part interest in a 16-track mixer, a 3-piece PA + 2 monitors, a box of cables and mics, a drum kit + hardware, guitars, a keyboard, laptop with cracked this and that and 6 stage lights. Later also CD mixer. It was all old and tenth-hand and on the verge of breaking but it all fit in a small van and eventually it was all given away. Not worth 10k then but it'd probably cost the best part of 10k to replace it all now, assuming everything worked.

 

[Pickman's model]

If its so easy, perhaps you could share how much money you've made from such activities in the past month?

Right. People busking in the last month. In winter. During a lockdown. I expect you've made as much money gigging in the last month as mojo pixy has busking.

 

[editor]

Right. People busking in the last month. In winter. During a lockdown. I expect you've made as much money gigging in the last month as mojo pixy has busking.

I'd already made the point that it's not possible to busk now because of Covid restrictions:

Not every musician has the confidence, ability or opportunity to busk - and right now no one can busk anyway because of the covid laws.

Perhaps in your haste to post you also missed the fact that I'd included mojo pixy's claim that there were 'fuckloads' of other ways in which musicians can currently not just earn some cash but 'make a living':

Then there are online shows, collaborations, Patreon, Kickstarter. Or there are fuckloads of other ways to make a living, they just don't come with the warm glow of love from a roomful of strangers.

Seeing as the poster is of the opinion that there multiple, nay, 'fuckloads' of revenue streams currently available to musicians, it seemed entirely pertinent to ask how well they were doing.

 

[rutabowa]

Never took a PA/microphones on tour, it is a given that that is supplied by venue.

 

[mojo pixy]

I'd already made the point that it's not possible to busk now because of Covid restrictions:

Perhaps in your haste to post you also missed the fact that I'd included mojo pixy's claim that there were 'fuckloads' of other ways in which musicians can currently not just earn some cash but 'make a living':
Seeing as the poster is of the opinion that there multiple, nay, 'fuckloads' of revenue streams currently available to musicians, it seemed entirely pertinent to ask how well they were doing.

As Pickman's model pointed out, buskers have earned about as much as live touring musicians in recent weeks, that is fuck all, and not because of Brexit but because of Covid. However, the completely insincere question style is the usual editor snideyness, digging at a poster in personal ways because you own a discussion board and get a kick out of needling and bullying then banning strangers online. It passes the days I guess.

As for me, as I posted upthread, I stopped playing live music some years ago. I make money in one or two of the

fuckloads of other ways to make a living, they just don't come with the warm glow of love from a roomful of strangers.

But I'll resist the temptation to link to Indeed or TotalJobs because that would make me as snide as the poster I'm replying to.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Never took a PA/microphones on tour, it is a given that that is supplied by venue.

Thanks to covid having to bring your own mics - for vocals at least - is now very much going to be the norm.

 

[mojo pixy]

Never took a PA/microphones on tour, it is a given that that is supplied by venue.

Yeah, fair enough, I used to find it depended on the venue. Places didn't always have everything we needed, sometimes their kit was in a state, and some places didn't have enough. It also meant we could ask for a little more money because we weren't paying the extra 100 quid or so to use their equipment. Same reason we used to try and bring a mate to do the mixing too, also saves a penny or two. Some venues make you use their kit and engineer, some don't.

 

[klang]

because we weren't paying the extra 100 quid or so to use their equipment.

you pay to use a venue's gear?

 

[rutabowa]

I don't think I've ever played anywhere where you'd even be allowed to use your own PA, as there are always multiple bands on the bill and it would be far too much hassle to have 1 band using their own.... everyone uses the same one, the one that is there, and the same house sound person (though I understand big bands bring their own sound person). This is out of 100s of gigs!

 

[klang]

When I played for The Who the bands used to beg us to bring and share our PA.

 

[TopCat]

Why not make your own bulletin board then, and spend the days arguing with your own self.

That's how urban started.

 

[mojo pixy]

you pay to use a venue's gear?

Gear + sound engineer, yes. Some places won't let you use their gear unless their enginer is in charge, which is understandable.

I don't think I've ever played anywhere where you'd even be allowed to use your own PA, as there are always multiple bands on the bill and it would be far too much hassle to have 1 band using their own.... everyone uses the same one, the one that is there, and the same house sound person (though I understand big bands bring their own sound person). This is out of 100s of gigs!

I've played a lot of gigs in squats and pubs with other bands where one band brings drum hardware, another brings a PA etc. Or get mates to bring and run their rig (ours got used for other people's gigs regularly) or the promoters bring theirs.

I've been able to pitch up plenty of times with just a guitar, or just snare and cymbals, but not every gig has been that easy. Not all venues had decent gear or even a proper stage. Corner of the public bar or upstairs games room.

 

[TopCat]

Surely the band's fee is taxed at source when they're paid by the venue?

Really?

 

[klang]

Gear + sound engineer, yes.

your experience is different to mine then.

 

[mojo pixy]

your experience is different to mine then.

Is this a genuine acknowledgement that experiences differ or just a snide yeah yeah?

 

[klang]

coming to think of it, there were a couple of occasions where venues wanted the bands to pay the engineer. One was in Berlin. Can't remember how much it was or how it turned out, but in principle I think that shouldn't happen.

E2A I seem to remember not playing that Berlin gig as we felt there was a good chance we wouldn't get enough people in to make it worthwhile

 

[klang]

Is this a genuine acknowledgement that experiences differ or just a snide yeah yeah?

the former

 

[mojo pixy]

coming to think of it, there were a couple of occasions where venues wanted the bands to pay the engineer. One was in Berlin. Can't remember how much it was or how it turned out, but in principle I think that shouldn't happen.

The Grosvenor for example used to charge one fee for using the back room, a larger fee for use of PA (which included paying an engineer)

 

[klang]

The Grosvenor for example used to charge one fee for using the back room, a larger fee for use of PA (which included paying an engineer)

I can see how for DIY gigs the bands would all chip in for pa hire and to pay for an engineer, but for a venue / promoter to book a band and the charge is pure rip off.

 

[rutabowa]

The Grosvenor for example used to charge one fee for using the back room, a larger fee for use of PA (which included paying an engineer)

I actually remember that venue specifically doing that yes, it is the only one I experienced... But if you were chipping in to pay for it then that is like the bands promoting the gigs themselves though, doing two jobs. Like when Reknaw put on a gig there and asked for us to play they didn't ask us to chip in, they just took all the money on the door and then sorted out paying for everything/taking ticket money/distributing money to bands.

However like i said always just done this as a hobby not to pay bills. When people have worked hard their whole lives building up skills to do a thing that there is no good reason shouldn't have carried on going for many decades, and then it all gets ripped apart in the space of a few months (as i said mostly cos of covid right now, but potentially brexit too, maybe maybe not but I can def see why people are concerned as it is far from certain right now that it will all be ok even if I think it probably will be), then I can totally understand them being upset, and don't really get the need to wind them up.

 

[rutabowa]

Particularly as this is a thread to discuss the effects; it's not a pro or anti thread, it is to discuss what is actually happening. If it was a thread discussing the pros and cons of brexit i'd have no problem with windups.

 

[mojo pixy]

However like i said always just done this as a hobby not to pay bills. When people have worked hard their whole lives building up skills to do a thing that there is no good reason shouldn't have carried on going for many decades, and then it all gets ripped apart in the space of a few months (as i said mostly cos of covid right now, but potentially brexit too, maybe maybe not but I can def see why people are concerned as it is far from certain right now that it will all be ok even if I think it probably will be), then I can totally understand them being upset, and don't really get the need to wind them up.

I know, what we're talking about is the DIY music scene where hopefully everyone makes some money but nobody gets rich.

The thread is about ''the industry'' which is not the same thing at all. It contributes a huge part of UK PLC's income and is also responsible for much of the cultural capital Britain and Britishness carries. It is a fantastically wealthy industry that disproportionately benefits extremely wealthy individuals (financially and socially wealthy) so maybe now is the time for some philanthropy from the many, many millionaires who have done so well over the years out of ''the industry''.

I have said, I genuinely feel for musicians that have devoted their entire lives to becoming virtuosos and have literally no other way to make a living. Likewise, people whose entire livelihood is setting up and running events. Covid has fucked them, and it's horrible. I am genuinely sorry about this and I'm seriously thinking of getting back into playing live when it's all over, just to help rekindle live music in my area.

I think the Covid issue is (not surprisingly) being confused with Brexit, but I'm really not aiming to wind anyone up, it's just the usual urban histrionics. I'm not being rude and I'm speaking from a place of experience. It sucks to find out that your job is about to become harder, and to have to reconsider the way you make a living. I'm acknowledging that, possibly the only poster on the thread who actually is.