The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Did you read his post and mine ?
Brexit - impact on musicians, touring and the music/events industry
- Thread starter beesonthewhatnow
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ATOMIC SUPLEX
Member Since: 1985 Post Count: 3
That post punk festival sounds like it is relatively small bands.... I never heard of them at least. I suprised that is happening in September. Post Punk Strikes Back Again 4 2021
Yeh, these guys' last gig was at the Ivy House in Nunhead.... they're def not Duran Duran level: The Fabricators (UK)
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Not to be confused with Nantwich band the fabric raters
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Don’t want to get into a row about this but I’d never heard of these at all but I looked them up on YouTube and Facebook and they are ok in my book
ATOMIC SUPLEX
Member Since: 1985 Post Count: 3
OK hands up, I only saw the long list of big bands.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Also the restrictions here are gradually easing so hopefully more gigs .
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Fair play mate
It was the only gig they said they were interested in going to as well!! so a bit unfair to attack them for only being interested in superstar bands!
I don't think it is v wise of them to be doing that september gig tbh, but that is for covid reasons. Would be interesting to hear from the bands how the journey goes..... I would not be surprised if it doesn't end up happening tho.
I don't think it is v wise of them to be doing that september gig tbh, but that is for covid reasons. Would be interesting to hear from the bands how the journey goes..... I would not be surprised if it doesn't end up happening tho.
ATOMIC SUPLEX
Member Since: 1985 Post Count: 3
Not attacking anyone for being into superstar bands, it's just that superstar bands were a bit irrelevant to the implications of brexit in the context of the current discussion. . . . anyway it wasn't all big bands after all, just a long list at the bottom. I missed the post punk strikes back.
No I didn't think you were attacking, it was more ed. (ulp)
The issue here is if tax has to be paid in advance, and on ALL the merch (not just what gets sold). Things like the carnet system were ways to mitigate this (ie you have to list everything, and then you only pay tax on merch that doesn't get brought back). Maybe there are other simpler solutions tho. It isn’t clear yet what will happen so it is definitely worth discussing, whether you can see the point of it or not. It is probably not a discussion for you though.
ATOMIC SUPLEX
Member Since: 1985 Post Count: 3
Yes, this is a point I was going to make. Nobody was saying they didn't want to pay tax on merch, everybody had to before brexit. However the current system is awkward and expensive. Hopefully there is a solution for small time sales. Not sure I can see one though.
TopCat
Putin fanboy
This first Google search suggests it’s neither expensive nor complicated.
Can anyone speak out of direct experience?
Can anyone speak out of direct experience?
£300.
www.gov.uk
£300 is a lot of money, whatever your judgement is. As for "not complicated", I am not sure what you are basing that on? As you haven't filled on out, or been through any of the process (exceot googling to find that page), and haven't been through multiple border and found out how ti works out in real life. You don't know, so why would you decide it isn't complicated?
Noone is going to have direct experience yet as there haven't been any tours yet.
Take goods temporarily out of Great Britain
Take goods temporarily out of Great Britain using ATA Carnet, Returned Goods Relief, declaration by conduct, oral declaration, Duplicate Lists.
£300 is a lot of money, whatever your judgement is. As for "not complicated", I am not sure what you are basing that on? As you haven't filled on out, or been through any of the process (exceot googling to find that page), and haven't been through multiple border and found out how ti works out in real life. You don't know, so why would you decide it isn't complicated?
Noone is going to have direct experience yet as there haven't been any tours yet.
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Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
Presumably the same system is in place for EU bands coming to the UK?
TopCat
Putin fanboy
Hey I asked for experience? We have tour managers here on urban who have dealt with non eu carnets for decades.£300.
Take goods temporarily out of Great Britain
Take goods temporarily out of Great Britain using ATA Carnet, Returned Goods Relief, declaration by conduct, oral declaration, Duplicate Lists.
£300 is a lot of money, whatever your judgement is. As for "not complicated", I am not sure what you are basing that on? As you haven't filled on out, or been through any of the process (exceot googling to find that page), and haven't been through multiple border and found out how ti works out in real life. You don't know, so why would you decide it isn't complicated?
Noone is going to have direct experience yet as there haven't been any tours yet.
beesonthewhatnow
going deaf for a living
They can be simple, they can be a pain in the arse.
By definition, they’re a lot more complicated and expensive than the previous didn’t-need-to-do-one arrangement we had before.
Another great Brexit success
By definition, they’re a lot more complicated and expensive than the previous didn’t-need-to-do-one arrangement we had before.
Another great Brexit success
editor
hiraethified
I can remember playing dates when we needed a carnet in Europe and it was a monumental pain in the arse. We had to unload the entire van at one border crossing so they could check the gear, making us 3 hours late for the gig.£300.
Take goods temporarily out of Great Britain
Take goods temporarily out of Great Britain using ATA Carnet, Returned Goods Relief, declaration by conduct, oral declaration, Duplicate Lists.
£300 is a lot of money, whatever your judgement is. As for "not complicated", I am not sure what you are basing that on? As you haven't filled on out, or been through any of the process (exceot googling to find that page), and haven't been through multiple border and found out how ti works out in real life. You don't know, so why would you decide it isn't complicated?
Noone is going to have direct experience yet as there haven't been any tours yet.
TopCat
Putin fanboy
So for a four piece band with no merch, how long do you think it would take to complete the application?They can be simple, they can be a pain in the arse.
By definition, they’re a lot more complicated and expensive than the previous didn’t-need-to-do-one arrangement we had before.
Another great Brexit success
spitfire
Walty McWaltface
I had to do one for Switzerland many many years ago (pre euro) and can confirm it was a pain in the arse, especially as we weren't even asked for it. Have heard many tales from more experienced roadies and TM's that the van border crossing inspection was a regular occurence with the carnet used as an excuse for a full search of everyone and everything.
Does anyone know if the new system for people working in Europe asks for criminal records etc? When we went to the US we had 2 band members and the manager refused entry for previous convictions, despite using a visa specialist to try and get them through.
Does anyone know if the new system for people working in Europe asks for criminal records etc? When we went to the US we had 2 band members and the manager refused entry for previous convictions, despite using a visa specialist to try and get them through.
editor
hiraethified
It would be a very, very fortunate band that could afford to play Europe without selling any merch at all, so I'm not sure what point you're hoping to prove with this whataboutery.
beesonthewhatnow
going deaf for a living
Focusing on how long any individual form filling takes is somewhat missing the point.
spitfire
Walty McWaltface
I've had a look at that website to see how easy it is to get a carnet.
Pre trip someone would have to trawl around the various band members houses, studios and rehearsal rooms to weigh things and note all serial numbers. Make sure you do it not too long before you leave or some of the kit may change or break meaning you'd have to do the application again. And yes theoretically this should be a one time exercise but it won't be.
Musicians, as anyone who has ever worked with them knows, can be a chaotic bunch (sorry ed). Line ups change, people fall out, new people come in, kit changes and no they won't remember to tell you until the van is getting loaded and even then they probably will forget, hopefully TM/backline notices. What happens if the guitarist buys a new pedal in that cool music shop in Berlin?
Complete the list of goods or equipment that will be travelling. List should include detailed descriptions including model and serial numbers, quantity, value in £s, weight in kgs and country of origin. Note: If you have the list of items in an electronic record (Excel or database) call for details on how we can import your list of items to save you data entry time.
Want to change the carnet because the guitarist bought that new pedal yesterday? Tough.
Once a carnet is issued, the General List (the list of goods or equipment) can never be amended. However, split shipments are possible if the certificates are properly marked. Additional certificates are also available if more trips are planned than orginally anticipated. The carnet can also be used for additional countries that were not identified at the time the carnet was issued. It is advisable to contact your carnet issuer if you decide to travel to a country not originally anticipated since some countries have requirements (See Advisories) that others do not have.
It's not simple, it's a pain in the arse, yes it is the new reality and as such people will have to work around it but it will cost money, time and experience that most of these smaller bands don't have.
Pre trip someone would have to trawl around the various band members houses, studios and rehearsal rooms to weigh things and note all serial numbers. Make sure you do it not too long before you leave or some of the kit may change or break meaning you'd have to do the application again. And yes theoretically this should be a one time exercise but it won't be.
Musicians, as anyone who has ever worked with them knows, can be a chaotic bunch (sorry ed). Line ups change, people fall out, new people come in, kit changes and no they won't remember to tell you until the van is getting loaded and even then they probably will forget, hopefully TM/backline notices. What happens if the guitarist buys a new pedal in that cool music shop in Berlin?
Complete the list of goods or equipment that will be travelling. List should include detailed descriptions including model and serial numbers, quantity, value in £s, weight in kgs and country of origin. Note: If you have the list of items in an electronic record (Excel or database) call for details on how we can import your list of items to save you data entry time.
Want to change the carnet because the guitarist bought that new pedal yesterday? Tough.
Once a carnet is issued, the General List (the list of goods or equipment) can never be amended. However, split shipments are possible if the certificates are properly marked. Additional certificates are also available if more trips are planned than orginally anticipated. The carnet can also be used for additional countries that were not identified at the time the carnet was issued. It is advisable to contact your carnet issuer if you decide to travel to a country not originally anticipated since some countries have requirements (See Advisories) that others do not have.
It's not simple, it's a pain in the arse, yes it is the new reality and as such people will have to work around it but it will cost money, time and experience that most of these smaller bands don't have.
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editor
hiraethified
Just working out the weight of all your gear would take ages on its own. I've absolutely no idea how heavy a drum kit is, for example.
Saul Goodman
It's all good, man
It seems like you're looking for problems rather than solutions.
Weighing scales and calculator sorts the weight thing.
beesonthewhatnow
going deaf for a living
Yeah, having to do a load of things now that didn’t need to be done before is definitely easier and a sure sign of progress. No idea why people are complaining really. Onwards to the glorious freedom.
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