Brexit - impact on musicians, touring and the music/events industry

[editor]

Hopefully this will make it easy for those who keep insisting that Brexit isn't such a problem to understand the problems:

The extent of the disruption has so far been masked by the pandemic but once lockdowns ease and the gigging and concert circuits get back up to speed, the real impact of the new rules will become evident.

New rules imposed as part of the Brexit deal do not ban musicians from playing in Poland or Spain, but they can make it so complicated that many may not even bother to try.

“To tour France now, you’d need one extra person working on it for a couple of months to cover the paperwork,” said Ms McDowell. Small bands or performers do not have the staff or deep pockets of a major orchestra and may thus decide to stay at home.

Mr Smith said small bands often help cover touring costs by selling merchandise at concerts but now face having to pay VAT and import duties when they cross the Channel.

“A lot of big US bands hire crew in the UK to take on their European tour.” Now they will think twice about doing that, given visa and other burdens UK nationals face if they want to work in the EU.

A new problem that musicians face when heading to Europe is the issue of cabotage. With Britain out of the EU, trucks carrying musical instruments can make only three stops on the continent before having to return home.

Ms McDowell said: “If we want to go on a tour of France and Germany, then we would have to engage agents in Germany or France and get them to organise picking up the instruments and moving them (in rented trucks). It’s doable but it’s more expensive.”

Orchestra’s touring hassles only start for UK musicians after Brexit

The London Symphony Orchestra has made it to the Aix-en-Provence festival. It is a rare glimmer of hope in the otherwise grim post-Brexit world British musicians face if they want to play in Europe

www.connexionfrance.com

 

[kabbes]

Looks like there might be some resolution on the horizon. Fingers crossed.

19 EU countries agree to visa-free short-term touring for musicians — Evening Standard

The Government said negotiations are ongoing with remaining EU Member State countries.

apple.news

(With apologies for the Apple news link)

 

[TopCat]

Germany too. You are on your way.

 

[rutabowa]

Looks like good news.

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

Fingers crossed. Still a chance the Tories will throw a spanner into it . Its definitely looking more positive though.

 

[The39thStep]

Fingers crossed. . Its definitely looking more positive though.

Not sure that I understand what you mean by ' Still a chance the Tories will throw a spanner into it ". It's a Tory government department that has successfully negotiated the agreements

 

[Saul Goodman]

Hopefully this will make it easy for those who keep insisting that Brexit isn't such a problem to understand the problems:

Orchestra’s touring hassles only start for UK musicians after Brexit

The London Symphony Orchestra has made it to the Aix-en-Provence festival. It is a rare glimmer of hope in the otherwise grim post-Brexit world British musicians face if they want to play in Europe

www.connexionfrance.com

Thank fuck for that!

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

Not sure that I understand what you mean by ' Still a chance the Tories will throw a spanner into it ". It's a Tory government department that has successfully negotiated the agreements

It's not fully worked out or clarified yet. Touring haulage rules, transportation of merchandise , carnets for equipment, none of that is sorted. Technically you still can't take your guitars and amps over without pricy carnet fees.

It's good news obviously, certainly for smaller bands and performers, but it is not yet covering medium sized operations and touring companies.

Basically the UK said EU performers can now come here visa free for three months and want everyone else to offer the same. . . something that was offered (and more) by the EU right from the start (and rejected by the UK). It's great, but it's hardly UK benevolence.

 

[rutabowa]

I guess the thing is that most of the pro Brexit people on this thread have been saying something along the lines of “it is a shit situation as it stands but there will be arrangements made that will go some way to fixing it”, and this appears to at least begin to confirm that. It is not even close to fixing everything of course, but that was not going to happen in one swoop.

 

[editor]

I guess the thing is that most of the pro Brexit people on this thread have been saying something along the lines of “it is a shit situation as it stands but there will be arrangements made that will go some way to fixing it”, and this appears to at least begin to confirm that. It is not even close to fixing everything of course, but that was not going to happen in one swoop.

It's nowhere near fully resolved yet, and is only coming as an after thought after intense lobbying by the music industry.

Bands will have already lost money because of this Brexit shitshow.

 

[The39thStep]

It's not fully worked out or clarified yet. Touring haulage rules, transportation of merchandise , carnets for equipment, none of that is sorted. Technically you still can't take your guitars and amps over without pricy carnet fees.

It's good news obviously, certainly for smaller bands and performers, but it is not yet covering medium sized operations and touring companies.

Basically the UK said EU performers can now come here visa free for three months and want everyone else to offer the same. . . something that was offered (and more) by the EU right from the start (and rejected by the UK). It's great, but it's hardly UK benevolence.

Yes it is good news and I did say months ago that this , state by state negotiation, was a possible way forward. Benevolence doesn't come into these things. Devil is in the detail but this is something that that both Leavers and Remainers can be pleased about. There are already gigs advertised in both Porto and Lisbon for UK bands.

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

Yes it is good news and I did say months ago that this , state by state negotiation, was a possible way forward. Benevolence doesn't come into these things. Devil is in the detail but this is something that that both Leavers and Remainers can be pleased about. There are already gigs advertised in both Porto and Lisbon for UK bands.

Did you read my post?

The 'way forward' is nothing more than the UK saying all EU performers can come to the uk visa free for three months. Absolutely nothing else has been negotiated or hacked out.
This and more was all offered before Brexit by the EU and turned down by the UK. By benevolence, I mean the UK is making out as if they have made and negotiated a great and benevolent offer to all member states. What they actually have is all member states getting the UK non-visa agreement and not all member states automatically offering the same in return. If only the UK hadn't been cunts about it in the first place eh?

The devil is indeed in the detail, because as it stands, technically a band still can't take their equipment or hire or borrow equipment in the EU without expensive carnet fees. A mid sized band can't get around the haulage rules, and merchandising is still totally borked.

 

[editor]

Yes it is good news and I did say months ago that this , state by state negotiation, was a possible way forward. Benevolence doesn't come into these things. Devil is in the detail but this is something that that both Leavers and Remainers can be pleased about. There are already gigs advertised in both Porto and Lisbon for UK bands.

Which bands? It's the smaller bands without the financial and admin resources who have been fucked over by this, and we're a long way from everything returning to pre-Brexit normal.

 

[editor]

I guess the thing is that most of the pro Brexit people on this thread have been saying something along the lines of “it is a shit situation as it stands but there will be arrangements made that will go some way to fixing it”, and this appears to at least begin to confirm that. It is not even close to fixing everything of course, but that was not going to happen in one swoop.

Not close to fixing much at all, really...

Trade bodies and unions representing British musicians have expressed frustration at a government announcement on European work visas that they say changes nothing.

Musicians and performers continue to accuse the government of ignoring their plight by failing to negotiate any Brexit deal that would reinstate the previous visa-free working arrangements.

The Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (DCMS) this week released a statement headlined: “Visa-free short-term touring allowed in 19 member states.”It said following discussions with every EU member state it could confirm that performers did not need visas or work permits for short-term tours in 19 countries.

It was interpreted by some as a step forward. But David Martin, the chief executive of the Featured Artists Coalition, said it changed nothing. “We knew all this in January. The idea that the government has done something fantastic or that it has won some concessions is not correct. The announcement is not new information to the music industry.”

The difficulties involved in touring remained, he said, with the rules differing in each of those 19 countries. Also, he said, visas and work permits were only one issue causing enormous problems because of Brexit.

“I’m feeling frustrated and really, really concerned about the future of our industry and the ability to tour in Europe. It is by far our biggest market … it is four times the size of the US market for British artists – it is huge.”

Horace Trubridge, the general secretary of the Musicians’ Union, expressed puzzlement at the announcement, “because we were in a meeting with the DCMS yesterday where they made no mention of this and we did talk about visa waiver agreements at some length. It seems a bit odd.

“It seems to be a political gesture rather than a solid new development.”

He said it looked like the government was merely confirming arrangements that already existed. “I would like to be more generous but it’s difficult.”

Live, the federation representing the live music industry, said the statement only clarified the existing position of a number of member states.

Greg Parmley, the organisation’s chief executive, said: “While we are grateful to the government for clarifying the pre-existing arrangements on travel to a number of EU countries – something that we as an industry have been untangling ourselves for some time now – there is nothing new in their latest announcement and we are still some way from visa-free travel in the EU.”

Parmley said there were no new “frictionless agreements” and in reality “this is only a very small piece in a much bigger touring puzzle”.

UK musicians hit out at announcement about visa-free EU touring

Trade bodies and unions accuse government of merely confirming arrangements that already exist

www.theguardian.com

 

[Yossarian]

Here I was thinking for a minute that the Tories had actually achieved something when all they're really saying is "We checked with those countries and most of them said you don't need visas so we don't know what you lot are complaining about."

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

Here I was thinking for a minute that the Tories had actually achieved something when all they're really saying is "We checked with those countries and most of them said you don't need visas so we don't know what you lot are complaining about."

It's all very odd. The French had already said that UK artists could come over without a visa for 90 days, but basically it seems that nobody even asked anyone else. The member states that that have not agreed my quite simply have not replied yet. The government have done basically nothing. . . . . however it does look like they have agreed to let EU members tour in the UK for three months without a visa . . I don't know if this is new or just something that they had not checked. . . and nobody seems to know what extra rules actually apply.

It's all unraveling quite quickly, but it does at least feel like something a bit more positive may be forced out of the situation.

 

[rutabowa]

Ok its not good news then.

 

[ddraig]

Oh come on guys, just lap up the tory propaganda version, let's not let the details get in the way!

 

[rutabowa]

I give up.

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

Ok its not good news then.

I think it's OKish news. I think there will be a call to push for more and it at the very least begins to clarify the situation. When governments don't really know what the deal is it's hard to expect venues, booking agencies, the police, immigration and boarder control to. It's good, it's just no where as good as the tory press release wants us to believe. I was initially skeptical of the lack of detail. . . and always skeptical of tories.

 

[rutabowa]

of course, good to be skeptical. honestly I would be super skeptical regardless of who is in power though, I wouldn't suddenly trust labour to do a great job, particularly not now. this isn't really about party politics. I guess the thing is, it is good to recognise what we actually want to happen in the future, and that involves acknowledging the odd bit of potential good news as well as the inevitable tons of shit. If everyone just gets stuck in a loop of "brexit was shit nothing can ever possibly be good again" then there is a danger of being left out of any conversation about what the future could look like, and so the future will DEFINITELY end up shit.

 

[editor]

of course, good to be skeptical. honestly I would be super skeptical regardless of who is in power though, I wouldn't suddenly trust labour to do a great job, particularly not now. this isn't really about party politics. I guess the thing is, it is good to recognise what we actually want to happen in the future, and that involves acknowledging the odd bit of potential good news as well as the inevitable tons of shit. If everyone just gets stuck in a loop of "brexit was shit nothing can ever possibly be good again" then there is a danger of being left out of any conversation about what the future could look like, and so the future will DEFINITELY end up shit.

I want the future to be great too, but right now bands are being fucked over because of Brexit and it's clear that the government has little interest in fixing things any time soon.

 

[Pickman's model]

I want the future to be great too, but right now bands are being fucked over because of Brexit and it's clear that the government has little interest in fixing things any time soon.

Little ability either

 

[Pickman's model]

It's all very odd. The French had already said that UK artists could come over without a visa for 90 days, but basically it seems that nobody even asked anyone else. The member states that that have not agreed my quite simply have not replied yet. The government have done basically nothing. . . . . however it does look like they have agreed to let EU members tour in the UK for three months without a visa . . I don't know if this is new or just something that they had not checked. . . and nobody seems to know what extra rules actually apply.

It's all unraveling quite quickly, but it does at least feel like something a bit more positive may be forced out of the situation.

Something vaguely shit instead of something knee-deep in ordure

 

[rutabowa]

I want the future to be great too

I never said I wanted the future to be great, I'm not some kind of maniac.

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

of course, good to be skeptical. honestly I would be super skeptical regardless of who is in power though, I wouldn't suddenly trust labour to do a great job, particularly not now. this isn't really about party politics. I guess the thing is, it is good to recognise what we actually want to happen in the future, and that involves acknowledging the odd bit of potential good news as well as the inevitable tons of shit. If everyone just gets stuck in a loop of "brexit was shit nothing can ever possibly be good again" then there is a danger of being left out of any conversation about what the future could look like, and so the future will DEFINITELY end up shit.

I don't want to sound like a negative ninny but basically nothing has changed. Sure I perhaps wouldn't trust the current labour party either, but they are not in power. The Tories have been at this spin bullshit and remained in power for years. It's a pretty good track record to call them out on. Maybe I should have just said 'this government'?
Anyway, positive is that it's being called out for the bullshit announcement that it is, and it does at least look like there is some forward movement. It was always going to be slow, at least the government want to look like they are doing something.
Anyway, like you have mentioned before, it's not like a heck of a load of EU gigs were going to get booked at the moment. Good bit of downtime to iron shit out (more positive thinking in action).

 

[rutabowa]

Anyway, like you have mentioned before, it's not like a heck of a load of EU gigs were going to get booked at the moment. Good bit of downtime to iron shit out (more positive thinking in action).

Yes there is that too of course, would be very unwise to book anything internationally at all imo. There was some international garage punk thing meant to be happening in Mexico in November and a lot of people were like "yay, mexico doesn't have any restrictions, we can go partyy!"... which struck me as pretty distasteful when there have been like a quarter of a million deaths from Covid in Mexico; just because there aren't restrictions doesn't mean it is a good idea to travel! I mean I get that people want to party, but they should have a bit of global perspective. Anyway that is a separate (but probably more life-or-death important) issue of course.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Yes there is that too of course, would be very unwise to book anything internationally at all imo. There was some international garage punk thing meant to be happening in Mexico in November and a lot of people were like "yay, mexico doesn't have any restrictions, we can go partyy!"... which struck me as pretty distasteful when there have been like a quarter of a million deaths from Covid in Mexico; just because there aren't restrictions doesn't mean it is a good idea to travel! I mean I get that people want to party, but they should have a bit of global perspective. Anyway that is a separate (but probably more life-or-death important) issue of course.

Mexico now on the UK red list, so £2300 hotel bill for anyone arriving from there.

 

[rutabowa]

Mexico now on the UK red list, so £2300 hotel bill for anyone arriving from there.

Yes I know, that was what they were complaining about

 

[Ming]

Interesting piece on this.