Brexit - impact on musicians, touring and the music/events industry
- Thread starter beesonthewhatnow
- Start date
- Status
Ming
I shot a man in Reno...
I never went away! I'm in for life lol!
ATOMIC SUPLEX
Member Since: 1985 Post Count: 3
Oh dear, it's not even the small amount of progress I thought it was. I assumed it was no need for work/performance visas they were talking about. It was just no need for entry visas. . . . Just like everybody else. FFS.
TopCat
Putin fanboy
Interesting article on this on the bbc.
'It just isn't sustainable' - Why touring in the EU is problematic for UK bands
One band explain what it's been like trying to tour in France in the age of Covid and Brexit.
www.bbc.co.uk
Visas and work permits definitely were a concern for people; there was a petition "to negotiate visa-free work permits for touring professionals and artists" that was linked to in this thread: Committee announces evidence session on arrangements for UK touring professionals and artists in the EU - Committees - UK Parliament
For those 19 countries listed neither a work permit or a visa is needed (whatever "short tours" means); whether that is a new development (unlikely), or just a clarification of something that already existed, it does address a concern that people had about visa fees etc. It seems likely that expensive visas and work permits within the EU won't be a big problem by the time tours start up again.
The Big problems (i am talking about small scale touring) seem to be the carnet thing, for equipment and merch, and the trucking rules. Those need to be the next focus.
For those 19 countries listed neither a work permit or a visa is needed (whatever "short tours" means); whether that is a new development (unlikely), or just a clarification of something that already existed, it does address a concern that people had about visa fees etc. It seems likely that expensive visas and work permits within the EU won't be a big problem by the time tours start up again.
The Big problems (i am talking about small scale touring) seem to be the carnet thing, for equipment and merch, and the trucking rules. Those need to be the next focus.
editor
hiraethified
Just look at the damage fucking Brexit has done to bands:Interesting article on this on the bbc.
'It just isn't sustainable' - Why touring in the EU is problematic for UK bands
One band explain what it's been like trying to tour in France in the age of Covid and Brexit.www.bbc.co.uk
The merch duty is what's going to absolutely cripple small bands and make even short European tours completely unviable.
ATOMIC SUPLEX
Member Since: 1985 Post Count: 3
It seems the different member states use 'visa' and 'work permit' interchangabley, so it can mean one thing or the other or both. The government advice is to check with each individual country. Hopefully the 19 countries are fully in. Not sure how clear that is.
Technically you will need forms from the HMRC so that you don't have pay social security contributions abroad, and you will have to declare and pay tax and NI on earnings (as usual).
Here is one bit of cool news though. . . If you are traveling with your guitar personally, it's personal luggage and probably does not have to be declared or carnetted. This might still be the case if you are in the same van your amp is in. Not sure where the line is drawn between personal luggage and a full rig though.
ska invita
back on the other side
Sorry to say it but I predict with confidence that whatever else may change, this won't.
Printing/making merch in the EU perhaps the only work around? Maybe EU businesses will offer this service specifically to get around this problem?
Saul Goodman
It's all good, man
Could you get the merch manufactured in the EU to avoid import duty?
I'm not sure about manufacturing in the EU; it might mean that if you don't sell it all then you'd get charged on the way back in to the UK! generally for stuff like t shirts you would want to do a big run to get the best price, and then takes it on several tours till it is sold out....
editor
hiraethified
Yep. Doing tiny print runs for each country would be prohibitively expensive and you'd still get clobbered if you ended up transporting unsold ones across countries.
And there'd be the extra stress of ensuring that the merch turns up at the venue in time (and has been done to your spec) and there's someone there to sign for it and it can be safely stored.
It's not really a workable solution.
ATOMIC SUPLEX
Member Since: 1985 Post Count: 3
Every band member has to wear ten t-shirts at a time and pack the rest as pants, change of clothes, dish mops, amp covers etc.
Not sure how to wear the records yet.
Not sure how to wear the records yet.
Saul Goodman
It's all good, man
You're no longer an EU member, so you're going to have to pay import duties when you export goods to an EU country. It's shit but it's the way it is. I have to pay duties if I send my niece something for Christmas. It's shit but there's nothing I can do about it. Do you believe bands should be exempt?
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
No it wont, the EU isn't about to turn a blind eye to UK bands evading tax, why should they?
editor
hiraethified
So Brexit really is a fucking shit idea then.
Saul Goodman
It's all good, man
Indeed, why should they. The UK wouldn't turn a blind eye to me sending a guitar as a gift to my nephew in England. Why should a UK business selling into the EU get away with it.
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
Regardless of Brexit if sales take place taxes are payable, why on earth should bands be exempt from it? If they don't have to pay then why the fuck should I have to? Can't remember who, but one musio on here when pressed on the issue brushed it aside with an "I don't know, I think the band takes care of it" or some such bollocks. Small bands, David Beckham, Amazon, all in it together whilst the rest of us have to pay our fair share.
Saul Goodman
It's all good, man
Ireland recognises the importance of its creative types.
Artists' exemption from income tax
Some income earned by artists, writers, sculptors and painters in Ireland from the sale of their work may be exempt from income tax. How to obtain exemption from income tax if you are an artist and satisfy certain criteria.
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
Ireland recognises the importance of its creative types.
Artists' exemption from income tax
Some income earned by artists, writers, sculptors and painters in Ireland from the sale of their work may be exempt from income tax. How to obtain exemption from income tax if you are an artist and satisfy certain criteria.www.citizensinformation.ie
Surely if Ireland is exempting artists from income tax that's half the country covered under the "Piss" umbrella?
editor
hiraethified
Do you view the major damage that Brexit is doing to the UK music/touring industry as worthwhile collateral damage in exchange for all the (unstated) vast benefits that Brexit is supposedly creating for ordinary folks?
And despite the vast cultural and economic benefits that the music/entertainment industry brings to the UK, you don't think it should be supported in any way at all in face of the damage being caused by Brexit?
editor
hiraethified
Which bands exactly?
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
I've spent half time and more in the Charity Shield compiling this list from emails and social media so tell me which bands you'd like to see over here. We would have to get the train from mine but it's cheap , Lisbon is three hours max, Porto is around six. Personally, I'd only be interested in the post punkthing, , Penguin Cafe and Lamb , possibly the Waterboys but I'm not into heavy metal.
Post Punk Strikes Back Again 4 2021
Line-up: Fear of Men (UK), I LIKE TRAINS (UK), Then Comes Silence, New Pagans, Plastic People, Odd Morris, BÄRLIN, Tisiphone, and The Fabricators (UK)
Lamb
The Waterboys,
Toy Dolls
Penguin Cafe
Tricky
Girlschool
Asomvel
Iron Maiden
Darkness
Royal Blood
Mel C
Metronomy
Simple Minds
Duran Duran
Liam Gallagher
Hot Chip
James
Yes
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
Fool, some of those bands have a fanbase, the OP's not interested in them, they want to know about bands with minimal fans.
editor
hiraethified
So all major label/well established bands with ample resources to soak up the increased costs and admin - the very thing this discussion was never about.
Perhaps you're only interested in big bands but - as I have stated all along - my concern is about how Brexit is destroying the livelihoods of smaller bands. I don't give much of a shit about super rich and famous artists like Duran Duran and Mel C.
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
I imagine it has been a grave concern to many whether Mel C displays a laissez faire attitude to paying tax as they tour around Europe, we wouldn’t want them just playing and not paying, whoever the fuck Mel C is/are.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
You asked for a list , I put a list together , sorry the list isn’t what you wanted , could have at least said thanks .
editor
hiraethified
I was asking you to put together something relevant to the discussion that has been going on for the last 45 pages.You asked for a list , I put a list together , sorry the list isn’t what you wanted , could have at least said thanks .
I don't think anyone has argued at any point that Brexit would stop international stars touring.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Your not someone setting assignments, you simply asked which bands which I replied to .
editor
hiraethified
Mel C has sold more than 108 million records, including 90 million copies with the group, and 23 million solo albums, singles and collaborations, and has earned over 326 worldwide certifications (with numerous diamonds), including 41 silver, gold and platinum certifications as a solo artist.
Perhaps you can explain what relevance this superstar has to small bands touring Europe. Thanks
ATOMIC SUPLEX
Member Since: 1985 Post Count: 3
It was made quite clear that everyone was talking about artists relative to the discussion on this thread. None of the listed bands would be affected, not even in merch terms.
- Status
Similar threads
