Brexit - impact on musicians, touring and the music/events industry

[mojo pixy]

Sadly there's not always a guarantee of any of the above when you're playing a pub gig.

or indeed when busking

 

[andysays]

from some of the attitudes expressed here it looks like some people would rather musicians just give up and get a proper job.

You've already accused me of suggesting that, when I have in fact said no such thing.

It's a shame you're continuing to react as if anyone expressing an opinion different to yours on this subject is engaging in a personal attack.

 

[killer b]

I'm sure that most of those musicians aren't in it primarily for the money, but if they choose to continue in this way, touring when it's not really economical, playing "showcase" gigs for nothing in the hope it will lead to something bigger, etc, they can't really complain when they fail to make a decent living at it.

that's what you're implying here though tbf. You can't post snide shit like this and expect posters not to react to it y'know.

 

[editor]

You've already accused me of suggesting that, when I have in fact said no such thing.

I'm not sure how else I can read this comment from you:

And to some extent I'm left wondering why, if the industry you're in is so problematic, are you still in it after so many years?.

I was actually very much enjoying playing Europe until it all evaporated as a result of first Covid and, latterly Brexit.

We still don't have a single gig booked ahead in Europe and there's no way I'm going to accept a booking from a European band for my nights right now. And that is directly because of Brexit.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

TBH it seems pretty clear to me that at the lower levels it's not really an industry at all and there isn't an employer/employee relationship between promoters and bands. It's more of a mutual hobby type of relationship isn't it really. So personally I wouldn't say bands should necessarily get minimum wage. Of course it's a grey line because at a bigger level it definitely is an industry and acts tend to aspire to being part of that.

Yep. There are lots of promoters that put on events for nothing, or at personal expense, because they enjoy doing it. Same thing with bands. Doesn't make the enterprise any less worth doing. And doesn't mean something that makes doing this more difficult shouldn't be complained about!

 

[gosub]

Slight tangent but when di University SU gigs stop being the thing they were ?

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Slight tangent but when di University SU gigs stop being the thing they were ?

When students stopped going to them.

 

[The39thStep]

I'm not sure how else I can read this comment from you:

I was actually very much enjoying playing Europe until it all evaporated as a result of first Covid and, latterly Brexit.

We still don't have a single gig booked ahead in Europe and there's no way I'm going to accept a booking from a European band for my nights right now. And that is directly because of Brexit.

Can fully understand the disappointment of not being able to tour but on what grounds are you refusing to take bookings from European bands?

 

[editor]

Can fully understand the disappointment of not being able to tour but on what grounds are you refusing to take bookings from European bands?

Because neither I or they know how the changes are going to impact on the finances or their ability to get to the UK

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Because neither I or they know how the changes are going to impact on the finances or their ability to get to the UK

We’ve currently got this headache at work with an orchestra that was meant to be coming over. IIRC it has musicians from 12 different countries.

Chances of it happening don’t seem great.

 

[editor]

More bad news for musicians because of fucking Brexit:

As the music industry continues to put pressure on the UK government over the post-Brexit bureaucracy performers touring Europe are facing as COVID restrictions start to lift, the Musicians’ Union and Incorporated Society Of Musicians have revealed that 77% of artists expect their earnings to decrease as a result of the new visa, travel permit and carnet requirements they now face.

A significant number of musicians are not expecting to tour Europe as a result, others are considering re-locating to countries within the EU, and a fifth are considering a career change.

The MU and ISM explain: “This is due to the additional documents [musicians] require for themselves (like work permits and visas) and for their equipment (customs documents like ATA Carnets). Transport expenses have also risen due to new road haulage requirements and some survey respondents expect that when combined, all these costs could add up to as much as £15,000 extra per tour”.

According to the survey, “only 43% of musicians are still planning tours or shows in the EU in the future; 42% of musicians would consider relocating to in order to continue working; and 21% are considering a change of career”.

77% of musicians expect earnings to be hit by new post-Brexit touring bureaucracy | Complete Music Update

completemusicupdate.com

 

[editor]

And more bad news:

Musicians and music businesses warn of ‘time up’ for UK grassroots acts, and European orchestras being resistant to booking UK artists because of ‘paperwork and expense’.

On Sunday, Sir Simon Rattle warned the London Symphony Orchestra will “fail” if ministers do not help ease post-Brexit touring rules in Europe.

Barriers to music tours include “even very basic things”, the conductor says.

“It’s all so obviously ludicrous, even in the area of haulage regulations,” Sir Simon told The Observer. “Touring concerts have to be planned in a different way – the truck has to return to England after two venues – we cannot go from one country to another.”

Now, 94 percent of respondents to a new survey by Incorporated Society of Musicians, ‘The impact of the Brexit Trade Deal on music businesses: The first 100 days’, have said the deal has had a negative impact on music businesses.

“Most European promoters, [including] orchestras, now do not want to book UK artists as it will involve too much paperwork and expense,” one respondent said.

Another warned the uncertainty and red tape “will cause British artists to miss vital and valuable opportunities in the EU”.

One survey respondent, who runs a Europe-based tour operating company, said: “If it doesn’t improve then I am deeply concerned about whether I can remain profitable and will be able to carry on. I may have to abandon my UK artists.”

Another warned: “It’s not viable for a small business like us to pay for all the hassle of performing in Europe.”

Instrument manufacturers and retailers, as well as those involved in recording, music publishing and sale of music, have warned relationships with EU businesses are crumbling.

One respondent told the ISM that EU-based businesses are “refusing to trade with the UK because of the new paperwork and admin”.

‘Era of being a UK-based concert artist is pretty much over’ – musicians share their Brexit realities

UK music businesses say European orchestras are hesitant to book UK artists because of ‘paperwork and expense’.

www.classicfm.com

 

[editor]

And here's how Brexit is having a devastating impact on classical musicians:

Brexit’s like an even bigger nail in the coffin during these unprecedentedly difficult times. Not only have we been set back by the pandemic, but now we face extra costs and bureaucracy to perform in Europe or to engage European artists. This will make international collaboration much harder and have a significant and detrimental financial impact on our industry. Even in the 18th century, Mozart’s education was predicated on the fact that he had freedom of movement to spend

The cultural sector is now decimated, and there is a further hidden enemy, whose impact has been masked by the onset of the pandemic: Brexit. For our touring musicians, Brexit serves as a death-knell to the days of freedom to tour the EU endlessly. British musicians are hit from both sides: almost no work at home because of the pandemic, no work abroad because of Brexit. A ‘bounce-back’ may happen, but it may be too late for many smaller arts organisations whose margins are tiny and for freelancers who have sought more secure employment elsewhere.

‘Musicians are abandoning the industry for a stabler career’ – classical artists on the arts reopening

The arts and live music are gradually being restored. But the long-term impact on musicians has been disastrous and many are leaving the profession entirely, say the classical industry’s leading figures.

www.classicfm.com

 

[Pickman's model]

And here's how Brexit is having a devastating impact on classical musicians:

‘Musicians are abandoning the industry for a stabler career’ – classical artists on the arts reopening

The arts and live music are gradually being restored. But the long-term impact on musicians has been disastrous and many are leaving the profession entirely, say the classical industry’s leading figures.

www.classicfm.com

what's been a particular irritation is that i had tickets to see catalan musician jordi savall at the wigmore hall last summer - i've long been a fan of his, and i wanted to take my aged pa. obviously the gig was off cos of covid but no dates have been released doubtless in part because of the shitty deal johnson agreed. savall's no spring chicken now, and i doubt he'll come back here again for some time, if ever: very riled.

 

[Maggot]

Sir Elton John warns musicians face EU tour 'catastrophe'

The star warns MPs the UK is in danger of losing "a generation of talent" due to visa constraints.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[ska invita]

Sir Elton John warns musicians face EU tour 'catastrophe'

The star warns MPs the UK is in danger of losing "a generation of talent" due to visa constraints.

www.bbc.co.uk

i hadnt heard this bit before:
"American acts when they come over, the vast majority of the time, take on British staff and use British equipment 85 to 90% of the time," he told MPs. "They will start to move to Schiphol, to Frankfurt, to warehouses in the middle of Germany, and take on the gear there, and all of that will be lost."

 

[editor]

Musicians are still fucked because of fucking Brexit:

Ross highlights another big and expensive problem. Getting a Spanish visa.

"It's an incredibly bureaucratic, riddled with red tape, and by far the most complicated visa application that anyone has ever had to do. And it's incredibly expensive," he says.

"With the visa application fees and the legal fees, it looks like it is somewhere between £450 and £550 per person. And that could just be for one show."

Previously, touring acts would load their gear into a vehicle in the UK - where about 80% of touring vehicles originate - and take it across the continent without hindrance. Even artists from the United States or Europe, would tend to hire vehicles from the UK, but that is no longer possible.


New trade regulations mean the vehicle, after dropping off the band or crew or kit, has to be driven back to the UK empty - incurring an additional cost. Once in Europe, bands will have to hire an EU-registered vehicle to transport their kit and crew.


At the end of the tour, you either drive that vehicle back into the UK and return it to Europe empty; or get a UK-registered vehicle back over to Europe to bring the equipment home. Either way, that could mean double ferry costs and other expenses.

Ross says there's currently a shortage of hauliers. People haven't been able to get licences to drive in the EU, and thanks to Covid, many drivers have changed profession because they didn't have any work. Some haulage companies have gone bust because there was nothing to support them.

UK stars call on government to act over post-Brexit touring

Artists such as Radiohead and Biffy Clyro back a campaign asking for a financial support package.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[TopCat]

Stars call for 'gadget levy' to fund UK creatives

A small percentage of devices' cost should go into a fund for UK creators and performers, a group says.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Pickman's model]

Musicians are still fucked because of fucking Brexit:

UK stars call on government to act over post-Brexit touring

Artists such as Radiohead and Biffy Clyro back a campaign asking for a financial support package.

www.bbc.co.uk

It's not the most complex visa application anyone's ever had to do, that's laughable hyperbole.

 

[TopCat]

It's not the most complex visa application anyone's ever had to do, that's laughable hyperbole.

Apply for a working visa for the US and compare the cost time and complexity.

 

[Raheem]

It's not the most complex visa application anyone's ever had to do, that's laughable hyperbole.

But when you take into account it has to be filled in by musicians...

 

[MickiQ]

Stars call for 'gadget levy' to fund UK creatives

A small percentage of devices' cost should go into a fund for UK creators and performers, a group says.

www.bbc.co.uk

nope not happening, it's not a tax on the tech companies it's a tax on the consumer. I do listen to at least an hour's worth of music on my phone each day (via bluetooth headset) when I go for my state sanctioned exercise but the artist has already had their cut when I bought the album.

 

[The39thStep]

Not sure about the visa situation at the time but this lot managed to tour Europe ; France, Germany , Yugolavia and Greece

 

[Saul Goodman]

Stars call for 'gadget levy' to fund UK creatives

A small percentage of devices' cost should go into a fund for UK creators and performers, a group says.

www.bbc.co.uk

That's surely a piss take?

 

[Raheem]

Think there used to be done sort of PRS "tax" on blank tapes.

 

[TopCat]

That's surely a piss take?

They take a view I think that creatives should be subsidised. 5 percent on a tv to pay for advert writers to do what they do.

 

[Saul Goodman]

Think there used to be done sort of PRS "tax" on blank tapes.

Let's add 3% to every sd card, USB thumb drive, hdd, ssd, etc, and give it to musicians that nobody listens to. Actually, I think it's a great idea. I have a guitar, where do I sign up for my piece of the pie? There are 12 members in my band. Mostly cats. Do we all get a share?

 

[Saul Goodman]

They take a view I think that creatives should be subsidised. 5 percent on a tv to pay for advert writers to do what they do.

I'm also an advert writer, and a tea bag, so gimme some of your kettle money!

 

[ska invita]

Not sure about the visa situation at the time but this lot managed to tour Europe ; France, Germany , Yugolavia and Greece

i know someone booked on a european tour next year - massive crew and entourage etc - but where theres big money they employ someone to do all the visas paperwork etc etc <theres a lot of it
the biggest acts/shows will be fine - the costs will go on the ticket price

 

[The39thStep]

i know someone booked on a european tour next year - massive crew and entourage etc - but where theres big money they employ someone to do all the visas paperwork etc etc <theres a lot of it
the biggest acts/shows will be fine - the costs will go on the ticket price

So the concerts by bands in countries where there is no visa requirement for musicians will be cheaper then those that have visa requiremnts ?