Most artists I know who make a living as artists do so through commercial work, likewise loads of musicians & composers make their money (there's precious few other ways now) through commercial & corporate stuff. Advertising & marketing is absolutely part of the creative industries.
Brexit - impact on musicians, touring and the music/events industry
- Thread starter beesonthewhatnow
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TopCat
Putin fanboy
Quack.
editor
hiraethified
I created a successful comic so I definitely know all about the process and work involved, but thanks for the usual hilarious wisecrackery. Really helped the Brexit debate along a treat.
Saul Goodman
It's all good, man
Is there a list of 'creative industries'?
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Once you remove the bits of the 'creative industries' you don't like - even though they do all exist within an interconnected ecosystem - it might come down to 3% or 2.5%. I'm not sure what the point in that exercise would be though - does the good bits of the industry accounting for less of the economy make them less worthy of support?
TopCat
Putin fanboy
I don’t think govt support for advertising and marketing would go down well with anyone.
beesonthewhatnow
going deaf for a living
Of course they are, what a fucking ridiculous question.
beesonthewhatnow
going deaf for a living
Yes, it’s true, and has multiple facets.AnnO'Neemus I'd be interested to know what you think about the claim "the UK does seem to have a problematic relationship with culture and the arts".
Joseph Middleton: Brexit is destroying music. Why has the government let this happen?
Despite repeated assurances that the government understood the need for frictionless travel after Brexit, hugely increased bureaucracy and costs look set to devastate the present – and the future – of musicians and music-making in the UKwww.theguardian.com
Forget the technicalities of brexit for a moment, what does a problematic relationship with culture and the arts actually mean, do you think?
Do you think it's true?
Scorn for “unworthy” artistic endeavours, a distrust in certain quarters of lefty/liberal artists, a common view that working in the creative arts isn’t a “proper” job. The list goes on.
editor
hiraethified
Absolutely. As well as musicians, there's plenty of filmmakers/photographers/writers who cut their teeth in advertising and marketing.
editor
hiraethified
As evidenced by some posters here.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
That's actually a pretty big question. I'd be happy to see the UK's arms industry go to the wall. I make no bones about that - it does the world harm, and I want it gone. That would cause a lot of people to lose their jobs and I need to justify my position by saying what I would do for them, but certainly not all areas of the economy are equally deserving of support.
that's not the question I was asking though
Steel Icarus
ersatz maven
I'd just like to point out that "economic migrants do jobs that Brits consider beneath them/don't want to do" is the vernacular of the boss class
That's not what I asked though - I was asking why you're trying to create a fantasy world where you can somehow disentangle the creative industries from advertising & marketing - what's the purpose?
My brother worked as an actor for his 20s - like most actors, this involved working in Waterstones or in a bar, and doing the occasional advert that his agent was able to find for him. Sometimes he'd get a walk on role in a British TV drama, or a part in a radio 4 drama, but 90% of the work was adverts, and most of those were in France or Italy or elsewhere in the EU for some reason. This is pretty normal for most actors, if his peers I know are anything to go by. And it's a similar story for all the other creative industries too - without the commercial work, most musicians, artists, actors and composers would not be able to make even the meagre living most of them make. In the end they already mostly drop out of the industry by the time they hit their 30s - less commercial work available would simply accelerate this process, or they won't bother at all.
beesonthewhatnow
going deaf for a living
It’s a similar experience on the technical side too - I’ve spent years doing deathly dull but well paid corporate shows, listening to suits droning on about mortgages etc, but that meant I had the financial security to dedicate time to working for fuck all but supporting the music scene in grotty pub venues, or recording demos for bands with bugger all cash available.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
it's not the process we're discussing but contempt for the creative industries which you introduced to the thread. it's often said that familiarity breeds contempt and imo the attitude you've shown towards cartoons is well explained by the experience you mention.
I created a successful comic so I definitely know more about the process than you, but thanks for the usual hilarious wisecrackery. Really helped the Brexit debate along a treat.
one thing i've learned on urban over the years is not to assume i know best - there's always someone here who knows more than you do. it's a truism that people learn more from failures than successes and although I've never created a successful comic I've been involved with several projects which didn't achieve what I'd hoped, so I'd say I'd gained a good deal of knowledge about the process
bimble
floofy
Theatre is an extravagance even more than music, so this is fine.
National Theatre shelves European touring after Brexit
The venue says a "lack of clarity" about visas and permits makes such tours "not financially viable".
www.bbc.com
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
they don't go down well now.
you'll never see something as creative as this from any government funded advertising
My two mates who between them form the backbone of the north-west ambient electronica scene both work in the same commercial studio recording & editing voice-overs for corporate videos, it's the same all the way down.
keybored
Well done. You remember cat good.
Any industry where snorting coke on the job isn't frowned upon.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
the issue isn't whether advertising and marketing pay people who otherwise work in genuinely creative sectors. it's whether advertising and marketing are in fact creative. whether they are worthy to sit alongside theatre and tv and radio and painting and writing. and i don't think they are. i take your point that they employ musicians and actors. but if they, advertising and marketing, are to be considered genuinely creative then there should be something more of the arts about them rather than people strutting and fretting upon a stage so other people buy a product or are aware of some information. it's not the grunts at the bottom who determine what a creative industry is, it's whether the sector is itself creative, and that happens above the pay grade of the people who depict the gold blend couple or do the voiceover.
Indefinite not short term. Covid19 restrictions are, sure. But the specific problems Brexit will cause, aren't being remedied yet. AFAIK admittedly. So as it stands surviving venues reopon with these issues still remaining.
That's the vast majority of working artists, musicians and actors. All but the most fortunate who are able to choose not to.
TopCat
Putin fanboy
Vast majority? Really?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
i think you need to separate the people who work in advertising, whose actual job is advertising - the larry tates and darrin stephens of that world - from the people who are contracted to appear in adverts.
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