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Brexit - impact on musicians, touring and the music/events industry

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Cartoons are creative and imaginative but here you seem contemptuous of the thought and effort that goes into them
:facepalm: :rolleyes:

I created a successful comic so I definitely know all about the process and work involved, but thanks for the usual hilarious wisecrackery. Really helped the Brexit debate along a treat.
 
Once you remove the bits of the 'creative industries' you don't like - even though they do all exist within an interconnected ecosystem - it might come down to 3% or 2.5%. I'm not sure what the point in that exercise would be though - does the good bits of the industry accounting for less of the economy make them less worthy of support?
 
Once you remove the bits of the 'creative industries' you don't like - even though they do all exist within an interconnected ecosystem - it might come down to 3% or 2.5%. I'm not sure what the point in that exercise would be though - does the good bits of the industry accounting for less of the economy make them less worthy of support?
I don’t think govt support for advertising and marketing would go down well with anyone.
 
AnnO'Neemus I'd be interested to know what you think about the claim "the UK does seem to have a problematic relationship with culture and the arts".


Forget the technicalities of brexit for a moment, what does a problematic relationship with culture and the arts actually mean, do you think?
Do you think it's true?
Yes, it’s true, and has multiple facets.

Scorn for “unworthy” artistic endeavours, a distrust in certain quarters of lefty/liberal artists, a common view that working in the creative arts isn’t a “proper” job. The list goes on.
 
Most artists I know who make a living as artists do so through commercial work, likewise loads of musicians & composers make their money (there's precious few other ways now) through commercial & corporate stuff. Advertising & marketing is absolutely part of the creative industries.
Absolutely. As well as musicians, there's plenty of filmmakers/photographers/writers who cut their teeth in advertising and marketing.
 
Once you remove the bits of the 'creative industries' you don't like - even though they do all exist within an interconnected ecosystem - it might come down to 3% or 2.5%. I'm not sure what the point in that exercise would be though - does the good bits of the industry accounting for less of the economy make them less worthy of support?
That's actually a pretty big question. I'd be happy to see the UK's arms industry go to the wall. I make no bones about that - it does the world harm, and I want it gone. That would cause a lot of people to lose their jobs and I need to justify my position by saying what I would do for them, but certainly not all areas of the economy are equally deserving of support.
 
That's actually a pretty big question. I'd be happy to see the UK's arms industry go to the wall. I make no bones about that - it does the world harm, and I want it gone. That would cause a lot of people to lose their jobs and I need to justify my position by saying what I would do for them, but certainly not all areas of the economy are equally deserving of support.
that's not the question I was asking though
 
I don’t think govt support for advertising and marketing would go down well with anyone.
That's not what I asked though - I was asking why you're trying to create a fantasy world where you can somehow disentangle the creative industries from advertising & marketing - what's the purpose?

My brother worked as an actor for his 20s - like most actors, this involved working in Waterstones or in a bar, and doing the occasional advert that his agent was able to find for him. Sometimes he'd get a walk on role in a British TV drama, or a part in a radio 4 drama, but 90% of the work was adverts, and most of those were in France or Italy or elsewhere in the EU for some reason. This is pretty normal for most actors, if his peers I know are anything to go by. And it's a similar story for all the other creative industries too - without the commercial work, most musicians, artists, actors and composers would not be able to make even the meagre living most of them make. In the end they already mostly drop out of the industry by the time they hit their 30s - less commercial work available would simply accelerate this process, or they won't bother at all.
 
It’s a similar experience on the technical side too - I’ve spent years doing deathly dull but well paid corporate shows, listening to suits droning on about mortgages etc, but that meant I had the financial security to dedicate time to working for fuck all but supporting the music scene in grotty pub venues, or recording demos for bands with bugger all cash available.
 
:facepalm: :rolleyes:

I created a successful comic so I definitely know more about the process than you, but thanks for the usual hilarious wisecrackery. Really helped the Brexit debate along a treat.
it's not the process we're discussing but contempt for the creative industries which you introduced to the thread. it's often said that familiarity breeds contempt and imo the attitude you've shown towards cartoons is well explained by the experience you mention.

one thing i've learned on urban over the years is not to assume i know best - there's always someone here who knows more than you do. it's a truism that people learn more from failures than successes and although I've never created a successful comic I've been involved with several projects which didn't achieve what I'd hoped, so I'd say I'd gained a good deal of knowledge about the process
 
It’s a similar experience on the technical side too - I’ve spent years doing deathly dull but well paid corporate shows, listening to suits droning on about mortgages etc, but that meant I had the financial security to dedicate time to working for fuck all but supporting the music scene in grotty pub venues, or recording demos for bands with bugger all cash available.
My two mates who between them form the backbone of the north-west ambient electronica scene both work in the same commercial studio recording & editing voice-overs for corporate videos, it's the same all the way down.
 
That's not what I asked though - I was asking why you're trying to create a fantasy world where you can somehow disentangle the creative industries from advertising & marketing - what's the purpose?

My brother worked as an actor for his 20s - like most actors, this involved working in Waterstones or in a bar, and doing the occasional advert that his agent was able to find for him. Sometimes he'd get a walk on role in a British TV drama, or a part in a radio 4 drama, but 90% of the work was adverts, and most of those were in France or Italy or elsewhere in the EU for some reason. This is pretty normal for most actors, if his peers I know are anything to go by. And it's a similar story for all the other creative industries too - without the commercial work, most musicians, artists, actors and composers would not be able to make even the meagre living most of them make. In the end they already mostly drop out of the industry by the time they hit their 30s - less commercial work available would simply accelerate this process, or they won't bother at all.
the issue isn't whether advertising and marketing pay people who otherwise work in genuinely creative sectors. it's whether advertising and marketing are in fact creative. whether they are worthy to sit alongside theatre and tv and radio and painting and writing. and i don't think they are. i take your point that they employ musicians and actors. but if they, advertising and marketing, are to be considered genuinely creative then there should be something more of the arts about them rather than people strutting and fretting upon a stage so other people buy a product or are aware of some information. it's not the grunts at the bottom who determine what a creative industry is, it's whether the sector is itself creative, and that happens above the pay grade of the people who depict the gold blend couple or do the voiceover.
 
Brexit will have an impact on every industry. That’s the nature of stopping free trade. Is that what you want to talk about in this thread, though? I thought your concern here was for the specific problems associated with not being able to travel short term to perform in EU states without loads of red tape? If so, it’s hard to see how that extends to advertising or IT.

Indefinite not short term. Covid19 restrictions are, sure. But the specific problems Brexit will cause, aren't being remedied yet. AFAIK admittedly. So as it stands surviving venues reopon with these issues still remaining.
 
Recording the music for tv ads , a dog food or bog roll jingle whatever, is the best paid work you can get, if you’re an orchestral player. I’m not sure if that counts as working in advertising or not tho.
 
That's the vast majority of working artists, musicians and actors. All but the most fortunate who are able to choose not to.
i think you need to separate the people who work in advertising, whose actual job is advertising - the larry tates and darrin stephens of that world - from the people who are contracted to appear in adverts.
 
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