Brexit - impact on musicians, touring and the music/events industry

[editor]

A quarter of our GDP.

Creative industries treated as 'afterthought' by UK government after Brexit

MPs discussed EU visas for artists which have resulted in bureaucracy and added costs

www.theguardian.com

With a continuing knock-on effect right across the creative industries.

Lyndsay Duthie, the chief executive of the Production Guild of Great Britain, said it was more likely that a European production such as Game of Thrones, which was partly shot in Northern Ireland, could now avoid the UK altogether because of the extra costs involved.

“It is possible that people with companies would base themselves in a European centre to avoid some of that red tape, but we don’t want that to happen,” she said.

Dinenage confirmed that at present, there are no ongoing negotiations with individual EU member states over entry requirements, visas and work permits for artists, musicians or technical crew.

 

[AnnO'Neemus]

I noticed the solidarity

The arrogance on display in that article is astounding btw ... "the UK does seem to have a problematic relationship with culture and the arts." = uncultured philistine Leave voters with no idea what they're destroying. This is the subtext of much of what I'm reading and it stinks.

I think you've got the wrong end of the stick. I don't really think it's about uncultured Leave voters having no idea what they're destroying as in they're indifferent to or even anti-culture.

I think there's a broader point to be made about Leave voters not knowing what they were destroying, because they'd been sold a pig in a poke, told we would 'take back control of our borders' and all those Europeans who come over here to 'take our jobs' would go home and stop coming.

Except the Leave campaigns didn't mention or glossed over the fact that EU migrants were doing some jobs that Brits don't want to do, like working outdoors in crappy weather doing back-breaking work in the agricultural sector or working as low-paid carers on zero-hours contracts, or doing things like working as nurses and doctors and teachers and keeping our hospitals and schools etc functioning.

One example is how many fishermen got persuaded to vote Leave to 'save our fishing industry' then got fucked over. That's not to say they were bad or wicked or stupid, they were manipulated by people who didn't actually have their best interests at heart running a very well-funded and sophisticated campaign.

So I don't think it's about Leave voters being uncultured philistines, it's about musicians, actors, artists, crew, etc, being unwitting 'bycatch,' to extend the fishing analogy.

Leave campaigners - by which I mainly mean those pulling the strings - and government, wanted to stop EU citizens from having freedom of movement to migrate here, work here, settle here.

I don't think the impact on the arts and culture sector and the short-term nature of many jobs in the sector, wasn't really on their radar.

The noise about potential adverse impact to be avoided was mostly about things like fishing, automotive industries, and impact on banking/finance sector, protecting jobs in those sectors. And of course there were concerns about the potential adverse impact on tourism (airlines and big international hotel chains worried about bottom lines being hurt). And academia raised concerned about the potential impact on universities if EU academics couldn't get work permits, and if Brexit put off lots EU students from studying in the UK and universities' revenues were hit.

But concerns were always dismissed with 'You're just a Remoaner' 'Take back control' 'Control our borders' "Sovereignty' and 'You lost, get over it'. Or some Leavers thought a few job losses and a bit of damage to the economy was a price worth paying.

I do think some people didn't really give a shit about arts and culture, but again, they were the people in power, and the people pulling their strings.

I don't really think arts and culture have had decent champions in government since Ed Vaizey's tenure as a minister ended and George Osborne left office. For all their flaws due to being Conservatives, they were two politicians who were arguably the most supportive of the sector amongst their peers (as much as any could be in the austerity era that Osborne himself presided over).

Like the article mentions, an afterthought.

 

[TopCat]

A quarter of our GDP. I tend to assume this figure is hyperbole as I lament the loss of our industries.

 

[editor]

I think you've got the wrong end of the stick. I don't really think it's about uncultured Leave voters having no idea what they're destroying as in they're indifferent to or even anti-culture.

I think there's a broader point to be made about Leave voters not knowing what they were destroying, because they'd been sold a pig in a poke, told we would 'take back control of our borders' and all those Europeans who come over here to 'take our jobs' would go home and stop coming.

Except the Leave campaigns didn't mention or glossed over the fact that EU migrants were doing some jobs that Brits don't want to do, like working outdoors in crappy weather doing back-breaking work in the agricultural sector or working as low-paid carers on zero-hours contracts, or doing things like working as nurses and doctors and teachers and keeping our hospitals and schools etc functioning.

One example is how many fishermen got persuaded to vote Leave to 'save our fishing industry' then got fucked over. That's not to say they were bad or wicked or stupid, they were manipulated by people who didn't actually have their best interests at heart running a very well-funded and sophisticated campaign.

So I don't think it's about Leave voters being uncultured philistines, it's about musicians, actors, artists, crew, etc, being unwitting 'bycatch,' to extend the fishing analogy.

Leave campaigners - by which I mainly mean those pulling the strings - and government, wanted to stop EU citizens from having freedom of movement to migrate here, work here, settle here.

I don't think the impact on the arts and culture sector and the short-term nature of many jobs in the sector, wasn't really on their radar.

The noise about potential adverse impact to be avoided was mostly about things like fishing, automotive industries, and impact on banking/finance sector, protecting jobs in those sectors. And of course there were concerns about the potential adverse impact on tourism (airlines and big international hotel chains worried about bottom lines being hurt). And academia raised concerned about the potential impact on universities if EU academics couldn't get work permits, and if Brexit put off lots EU students from studying in the UK and universities' revenues were hit.

But concerns were always dismissed with 'You're just a Remoaner' 'Take back control' 'Control our borders' "Sovereignty' and 'You lost, get over it'. Or some Leavers thought a few job losses and a bit of damage to the economy was a price worth paying.

I do think some people didn't really give a shit about arts and culture, but again, they were the people in power, and the people pulling their strings.

I don't really think arts and culture have had decent champions in government since Ed Vaizey's tenure as a minister ended and George Osborne left office. For all their flaws due to being Conservatives, they were two politicians who were arguably the most supportive of the sector amongst their peers (as much as any could be in the austerity era that Osborne himself presided over).

Like the article mentions, an afterthought.

Excellently put.

 

[killer b]

A quarter of our GDP. I tend to assume this figure is hyperbole as I lament the loss of our industries.

It does seem to be hyperbole, but it's still substantial - says here £111.7 billion from the 'creative industries' in 2018, which is a little under 6% of the economy

 

[TopCat]

It does seem to be hyperbole, but it's still substantial - says here £111.7 billion from the 'creative industries' in 2018, which is a little under 6% of the economy

Six percent seems more realistic.

 

[killer b]

sorry, forgot the link: UK’s Creative Industries contributes almost £13 million to the UK economy every hour

 

[editor]

Six percent seems more realistic.

This what they were saying before Covid struck:


UK’s Creative Industries contributes almost £13 million to the UK economy every hour
New statistics reveal the Creative Industries sector is growing more than five times faster than the national economy

• Creative industries contributed more than £111bn to the UK economy in 2018
• Advertising and marketing were two of the key drivers of growth in the Creative Industries

New government figures show the country’s successful creative industries contributed £111.7 billion to the UK in 2018, equivalent to £306 million every day.

This is up 7.4 per cent on the previous year, meaning growth in the sector is more than five times larger than growth across the UK economy as a whole, which increased by 1.4 per cent.

As a whole, the Department for Digital Culture Media and Sport (DCMS) Sectors (excluding Tourism) contributed £224.1 billion to the UK in 2018, accounting for 11.7 per cent of the economy. Headline figures include:

The Digital Sector contributed £149 billion to the UK in 2018, accounting for 7.7 per cent of the UK economy. This contribution is up 7.9 per cent on the previous year, meaning growth in the sector is nearly six times larger than growth across the economy as a whole, which increased by 1.4 per cent.

UK’s Creative Industries contributes almost £13 million to the UK economy every hour

New statistics reveal the Creative Industries sector is growing more than five times faster than the national economy

www.gov.uk

What a thing to fuck up

 

[editor]

sorry, forgot the link: UK’s Creative Industries contributes almost £13 million to the UK economy every hour

Synergy!

 

[editor]

Infographics!

Facts and Figures - The Creative Industries

A selection of facts, figures and statistics that have been collected to provide additional information and support for the UK's creative industries.

www.thecreativeindustries.co.uk

 

[kabbes]

To be fair, I don't think that of the £116bn from "creative industries" (what a term!), the £47bn from IT, software and games or the £17bn from advertising and marketing is particularly at issue, here. Nor, probably, the £11bn from publishing or £4bn from architecture.

The remaining £37bn certainly is the issue, though, and it is more than large enough an amount by itself to make the point.

 

[editor]

To be fair, I don't think that of the £116bn from "creative industries" (what a term!), the £47bn from IT, software and games or the £17bn from advertising and marketing is particularly at issue, here. Nor, probably, the £11bn from publishing or £4bn from architecture.

I suspect Brexit will have an impact on those industries too. For example, the trade body for the UK gaming industry said:

“it is vital that the games businesses retain the ease of trade for digital services and physical goods that they currently enjoy through membership of the European single market.”

News

How to Contact Halo Financial. You can contact us via an online form, by email, telephone or even pay us a visit. Our offices are open 8.30am to 8pm, Monday to Thursday, 8.30 to 5.30 on Fridays.

www.halofinancial.com

and here's a shit load of new hoops to jump through:

What next for Brexit? Ukie explains the impact on the games industry - MCV/DEVELOP

Data flows, physical and digital trade, funding, mobility, IP and more....

www.mcvuk.com

Brexit Could Make All Aspects Of Game Development More Difficult:

Here's How Brexit Will Impact The Gaming Industry

Brexit could be detrimental to the future of gaming, but only time will tell.

www.thegamer.com

 

[mojo pixy]

AnnO'Neemus I'd be interested to know what you think about the claim "the UK does seem to have a problematic relationship with culture and the arts".

Joseph Middleton: Brexit is destroying music. Why has the government let this happen?

Despite repeated assurances that the government understood the need for frictionless travel after Brexit, hugely increased bureaucracy and costs look set to devastate the present – and the future – of musicians and music-making in the UK

www.theguardian.com

Forget the technicalities of brexit for a moment, what does a problematic relationship with culture and the arts actually mean, do you think?
Do you think it's true?

I ask because it's a bold and very wide-ranging claim in an article that seems to place the rest of its emphasis on specifics: names, places, dates, numbers. Why suddenly talk about the UK as a whole? Do you think he means everyone in the UK has a problematic relationship with the arts and culture? If not, then who do you think he means?

 

[editor]

AnnO'Neemus I'd be interested to know what you think about the claim "the UK does seem to have a problematic relationship with culture and the arts".

Joseph Middleton: Brexit is destroying music. Why has the government let this happen?

Despite repeated assurances that the government understood the need for frictionless travel after Brexit, hugely increased bureaucracy and costs look set to devastate the present – and the future – of musicians and music-making in the UK

www.theguardian.com

Forget the technicalities of brexit for a moment, what does a problematic relationship with culture and the arts actually mean, do you think?
Do you think it's true?

I ask because it's a bold and very wide-ranging claim in an article that seems to place the rest of its emphasis on specifics: names, places, dates, numbers. Why suddenly talk about the UK as a whole? Do you think he means everyone in the UK has a problematic relationship with the arts and culture? If not, then who do you think he means?

I'd say the way that the government barely cast a thought about the impact of Brexit on the creative industries rather underlines that point, as does their subsequent post-Brexit lack of urgency in fixing the clusterfuck.

They've seemed far more bothered about the fishing industry (which they've just fucked too).

 

[mojo pixy]

But if he means this tory brexit government has a problematic relationship with culture and the arts, why that isn't what the article says? Why The UK as a whole?

I'm asking AnnO'Neemus because they posted a long refutation of my view that it shows arrogant disdain towards a certain part of the population, who have this problematic relationship with culture. Because frankly, the statement sounded like a dog-whistle to me.

 

[Pickman's model]

But if he means this tory brexit government has a problematic relationship with culture and the arts, why that isn't what the article says? Why The UK as a whole?

I'm asking AnnO'Neemus because they posted a long refutation of my view that it shows arrogant disdain towards a certain part of the population, who have this problematic relationship with culture. Because frankly, the statement sounded like a dog-whistle to me.

I knew I'm fighting a rearguard action here but if they posted a refutation they would have proved you wrong but it sounds to me like they simply disagreed with you which is different

 

[TopCat]

sorry, forgot the link: UK’s Creative Industries contributes almost £13 million to the UK economy every hour

This what they were saying before Covid struck:


UK’s Creative Industries contributes almost £13 million to the UK economy every hour
New statistics reveal the Creative Industries sector is growing more than five times faster than the national economy

UK’s Creative Industries contributes almost £13 million to the UK economy every hour

New statistics reveal the Creative Industries sector is growing more than five times faster than the national economy

www.gov.uk

What a thing to fuck up

From your post.

• Advertising and marketing were two of the key drivers of growth in the Creative Industries
• 
  Are they worth concern? Advertising and marketing? Have they been stymied by Brexit?
  

 

[mojo pixy]

I knew I'm fighting a rearguard action here but if they posted a refutation they would have proved you wrong but it sounds to me like they simply disagreed with you which is different

Fair enough, it was a bad choice of word on my part. Rebuttal might have been better. My interest is in the attitude on display though, and that's harder to evidence.

 

[Pickman's model]

• Advertising and marketing were two of the key drivers of growth in the Creative Industries

Neither advertising nor marketing are creative

 

[Pickman's model]

I'd say the way that the government barely cast a thought about the impact of Brexit on the creative industries rather underlines that point, as does their subsequent post-Brexit lack of urgency in fixing the custerfuck.

They've seemed far more bothered about the fishing industry (which they've just fucked too).

I'd say the UK is more than hmg

 

[mojo pixy]

Neither advertising nor marketing are creative

On the other hand, convincing us en masse to pay hard-earned money for things we should own, that we neither need nor can truly afford, demonstrates a degree of imagination and creativity that might make Walter Mitty blush.

 

[TopCat]

On the other hand, convincing us en masse to pay hard-earned money for things we should own, that we neither need nor can truly afford, demonstrates a degree of imagination and creativity that might make Walter Mitty blush.

Think of the jingles. Just keep thinking of them.

 

[killer b]

From your post.

• Advertising and marketing were two of the key drivers of growth in the Creative Industries
• 
  Are they worth concern? Advertising and marketing? Have they been stymied by Brexit?

I don't know, and I'm not very interested in trying to break it down into bits of the sector I approve of which deserve support and bits I don't approve of which don't deserve it - they're all interconnected anyway.

I was actually agreeing with you that the figure you were quoting was inflated.

 

[editor]

And here comes more contempt for the creative industries.

 

[Pickman's model]

On the other hand, convincing us en masse to pay hard-earned money for things we should own, that we neither need nor can truly afford, demonstrates a degree of imagination and creativity that might make Walter Mitty blush.

Somewhere Sven Hassel observes that the artists who painted recruiting posters were third rate artists. Advertisers and marketers aren't even that.

 

[TopCat]

And here comes more contempt for the creative industries.

Do you regard advertising and marketing as part of the creative industries?

 

[Pickman's model]

And here comes more contempt for the creative industries.

I think I have contempt for all industries, at the way work is ordered in the current mode of production

 

[editor]

Do you regard advertising and marketing as part of the creative industries?

Sorry, but I'm really not interested in joining some cartoon version of this debate.

 

[kabbes]

I suspect Brexit will have an impact on those industries too.

Brexit will have an impact on every industry. That’s the nature of stopping free trade. Is that what you want to talk about in this thread, though? I thought your concern here was for the specific problems associated with not being able to travel short term to perform in EU states without loads of red tape? If so, it’s hard to see how that extends to advertising or IT.

 

[Pickman's model]

Sorry, but I'm really not interested in joining some cartoon version of this debate.

Cartoons are creative and imaginative but here you seem contemptuous of the thought and effort that goes into them