Brexit - impact on musicians, touring and the music/events industry

[nyxx]

Erm. Not to go too far off topic. But busking in central London is under threat of criminalisation. Campaign link:

Home - Save London Buskers

Westminster has announced plans to criminalise public performance and musicNew policies will make it illegal to sing, dance, juggle, and entertain in public spaces throughout most of Central London’s West End. Street Performers are being left out of the consultation.Westminster has left buskers...

savelondonbuskers.com

on the positive side, at least busking's still legal

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

I reckon they will sell off spots like on the underground.

 

[editor]

Here's the utterly useless Culture minister Caroline Dinenage.

'Not consistent with Brexit': Culture minister Caroline Dinenage responds to the petition for visa-free EU touring

Following a debate by MPs on the petition for visa-free touring, Caroline Dinenage outlines the government’s plans on helping artists perform in Europe without costly bureaucracy and says the lack of agreement with the EU is “deeply regrettable”. Read on for the full story…

www.musicweek.com

 

[ska invita]

Here's the utterly useless Culture minister Caroline Dinenage.

'Not consistent with Brexit': Culture minister Caroline Dinenage responds to the petition for visa-free EU touring

Following a debate by MPs on the petition for visa-free touring, Caroline Dinenage outlines the government’s plans on helping artists perform in Europe without costly bureaucracy and says the lack of agreement with the EU is “deeply regrettable”. Read on for the full story…

www.musicweek.com

It's not the clearest piece to be honest.

She claims that the government put forward a proposal but “Quite simply, the EU rejected this proposal,” she told MPs. “There was no specific counter-offer from the EU concerning touring for musicians, or for the creative sectors.”
Despite which she then goes on to talk about an EU proposal

"the EU proposals were part of a package of visa-free travel for current and future EU members across a wide range of sectors. “It’s just simply not consistent with the manifesto commitment to take back control of our borders, and it wasn’t consistent with the idea of Brexit that the majority of people in this country voted for,” said Dinenage.!"

What proposals were these? And why were they rejected precisely? None the wiser here as to what has happened

 

[editor]

It's not the clearest piece to be honest.

She claims that the government put forward a proposal but “Quite simply, the EU rejected this proposal,” she told MPs. “There was no specific counter-offer from the EU concerning touring for musicians, or for the creative sectors.”
Despite which she then goes on to talk about an EU proposal

"the EU proposals were part of a package of visa-free travel for current and future EU members across a wide range of sectors. “It’s just simply not consistent with the manifesto commitment to take back control of our borders, and it wasn’t consistent with the idea of Brexit that the majority of people in this country voted for,” said Dinenage.!"

What proposals were these? And why were they rejected precisely? None the wiser here as to what has happened

It chimes perfectly with then entire Brexit Experience: confused, self destructive, contradictory, lies, more lies and dodgy claims. Meanwhile, bands/DJs can't book European tours and promoters can't book bands because no one knows what the fuck is going on.

 

[ska invita]

confused, self destructive, contradictory, lies, more lies and dodgy claims.

blatantly that

 

[mojo pixy]

I came across this today. I had never heard of them before, and I imagine they're busier than usual just now, but probably worth putting the link here given the context.

WHAT WE DO
For almost 100 years, Help Musicians has been providing help, support and opportunities to empower musicians at all stages of their lives.
We’re an independent charity which aims to make a meaningful difference to the lives of musicians, offering a wide spectrum of support which includes: Health & Welfare services, Creative development funding, ground-breaking research, a mental health helpline for the entire music industry and an incredibly popular hearing health scheme which aims to prevent hearing problems that would otherwise bring musicians’ careers to an untimely end.
We're passionate about creating a world where musicians thrive.

HOW WE CAN HELP YOU
If you’re a professional musician and need help, you can call to speak to us in confidence on 0207 239 9101, Monday to Friday 9am to 5.30pm. Please leave a message out of hours and we’ll get back to you as soon as we can.

 

[ddraig]

It's not the clearest piece to be honest.

She claims that the government put forward a proposal but “Quite simply, the EU rejected this proposal,” she told MPs. “There was no specific counter-offer from the EU concerning touring for musicians, or for the creative sectors.”
Despite which she then goes on to talk about an EU proposal

"the EU proposals were part of a package of visa-free travel for current and future EU members across a wide range of sectors. “It’s just simply not consistent with the manifesto commitment to take back control of our borders, and it wasn’t consistent with the idea of Brexit that the majority of people in this country voted for,” said Dinenage.!"

What proposals were these? And why were they rejected precisely? None the wiser here as to what has happened

Yes! Isn't some of what they've said a contradiction/lie?

 

[Pickman's model]

Yes! Isn't some of what they've said a contradiction/lie?

It would be astounding if they stopped lying at this point

 

[editor]

More evidence of how Brexit is shafting musicians. Maybe he can simply wheel his grand piano in the street and make up all his lost earnings that way. Or quite whining and take up bricklaying or something.

And there it was. An email from my agent, the first post-Brexit correspondence relating to work in Spain, explaining that a recital, for which I signed a contract two years ago, would now cost me £600 in visa-related bills. Even though I would only spend 24 hours there, my agent would be required to work on a raft of extra paperwork, my accountant to furnish me with documents giving proof of income, and my bank would need to provide me with recent certified bank statements (no pesky home printouts here, thank you). My passport would need to be submitted to the Spanish embassy and held there until the visa was processed, causing problems for when I had to travel for other work. Apparently the normal visa cost would be nearer £150, but with the embassy currently open one day a week, the promoter had told my agent the only option would be to pay for the £600 fast-track one.

It is mind-boggling to learn that there are no provisions in the Brexit deal that account for the nature of UK musicians’ short-term work. Our industry contributes £5.8bn to the UK economy and is part of a wider £111bn creative industry. The government provided repeated assurances to the music sector throughout 2020 (questions raised in parliament on 3 June, 22 June, 10 September, 21 October, 16 November and 22 December) that it understood the need for frictionless travel after Brexit and that they would be negotiating an ambitious agreement to achieve this objective with the EU.

Joseph Middleton: Brexit is destroying music. Why has the government let this happen?

Despite repeated assurances that the government understood the need for frictionless travel after Brexit, hugely increased bureaucracy and costs look set to devastate the present – and the future – of musicians and music-making in the UK

www.theguardian.com

 

[TopCat]

“We face the stark reality that the UK, through its own actions, will fulfil the German author Oskar Schmitz’s 1914 snub, that we are “Das Land ohne Musik” (The Land Without Music)”.

It does remind me of the MU and home taping.

 

[killer b]

It does remind me of the MU and home taping.

Changes to the music industry over the last 50 years - including piracy - has decimated the number of musicians who are able to make their living through performing and recording music. Covid and brexit do pose further threats, however you look at it.

Music will continue in one form or another, as it always does, but you cant blame people who rely on it for a living who's ability to make that living is threatened for indulging in a little drama. What happened to solidarity with workers? It's beneath you.

 

[mojo pixy]

What happened to solidarity with workers? It's beneath you.

View attachment 253231

I noticed the solidarity

The arrogance on display in that article is astounding btw ... "the UK does seem to have a problematic relationship with culture and the arts." = uncultured philistine Leave voters with no idea what they're destroying. This is the subtext of much of what I'm reading and it stinks.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

I noticed the solidarity

The arrogance on display in that article is astounding btw ... "the UK does seem to have a problematic relationship with culture and the arts." = uncultured philistine Leave voters with no idea what they're destroying. This is the subtext of much of what I'm reading and it stinks.

My problem is with the cunts who know exactly what they’re destroying.

 

[killer b]

I noticed the solidarity

Dude, that was a response to you telling musicians to just get another job. I wonder what kind of response you'd have got from striking miners in the 80s if you'd have told them to retrain or something? Youd have been told to get to fuck.

 

[mojo pixy]

Dude, that was a response to you telling musicians to just get another job. I wonder what kind of response you'd have got from striking miners in the 80s if you'd have told them to retrain or something? Youd have been told to get to fuck.

It was a response to me explaining I'd been training people new to a job all week. Taking the piss out of me, and by extension out of them. It doesn't show a lack of solidarity to try and help someone keep making a living, somehow. All I can do is post in a thread, but anyone PMs me and I will do my best to help them as I can. Maybe I wasn't clear about that .. I think it speaks to the bad feeling on this thread that I have to spell it out but whatever.

A lot of musicians already have another job ffs. In the 1980s the myth of ''a job for life'' was still widely believed. Surely not nowadays? IMO it's worse now and worth having more than one string to the bow. I scrape a living doing three different things because I don't trust anyone to employ me consistently and never ever sack me or make me redundant. If I took up playing gigs again it would be four.

I have plenty of solidarity. Where the fuck is yours under that sneer? Actually forget it, I'm not interested.

 

[editor]

It does remind me of the MU and home taping.

Oh does it really? So how did that impact on the ability of small bands to make money and play Europe?

 

[editor]

The arrogance on display in that article is astounding btw ... "the UK does seem to have a problematic relationship with culture and the arts."

Compared to some other countries it does. And you'd understand that if you'd ever toured Europe with its well funded venues and facilities.

 

[editor]

A lot of musicians already have another job ffs

Yes they do. Often several. I had three. Now I have none.

But playing music isn't just another job like stacking shelves. It's a calling, it's hope, it's joy, it's creativity, it's fucking hard work, it's a constant battle uphill, it's something that people live for, it's something that makes people's lives worth living, it's something that keeps mental health issues at bay, it's creative expression, it's sharing human emotions and it's bringing pleasure and empathy to people's lives and much more. It's also an industry that makes the UK billions of pounds and sustains the existence of pubs, clubs, festivals and gives employment to tens of thousands of people.

And Brexit is threatening to take that all away from some people, and all you can say is "get another job" like that will fix everything. Why aren't you shouting to support an industry you claim to be part of? Or is it just because you're doing OK and think it will be that easy for everyone else?

 

[editor]

This quote sums up Brexit perfectly:

“All this has done is cause damage to our industry. There’s no benefit and nobody’s a winner here at all"

Stuart McPherson is managing director of KB Events – a UK haulage company who have helped the likes of The Prodigy, The 1975, Ed Sheeran, Stereophonics and George Ezra all tour across the continent.

“The current Brexit deal makes touring nigh on impossible, to be honest,” he told NME. “It’s not something that you can apply for permits to get around. The Brexit deal means that as a UK company, the maximum amount of work we can do in the EU is to make one delivery stop, then make one interior move in that country, then we’re allowed to make one more movement into another EU state before we have to return to the UK by law.

“The problem that we have is that 85 per cent of rock’n’roll touring across Europe is done from the UK,” he said. “Yes, we’ll have job losses and some businesses will go under, but it also negates touring in Europe because there isn’t the capacity there to deal with the acts. The immediate solution for my business, and it sticks in my throat and has cost me hundreds of thousands of pounds despite not having any work for a year, is to move into the EU to allow us to have the movement.”

Speaking of the human impact of what’s at stake, McPherson said: “The taxable income for the UK goes abroad and the jobs go too. We can’t employ UK drivers to drive EU trucks. I predict around 80 per cent of my workforce will have to go to the EU.

“If trucking companies move to the EU, are the sound companies going to go? Are the lighting companies going to go? Are the video companies going to go? It makes sense for them all to follow us. What’s the point in having all the kit here if you can’t move it? It makes sense to have it all in Europe, start there and end in the UK. Historically, international music tours would start and finish in the UK. Taking into mind that they’ll probably be using local crew too, then the number of jobs the UK is losing is massive.”

UK live music industry warns of losing "massive" amount of jobs and income to EU with touring made "nigh on impossible"

Figures from the UK's live music industry have warned that a "massive" amount of jobs and taxable income will be lost to the EU under the current Brexit deal

www.nme.com

 

[klang]

I wonder what kind of response you'd have got from striking miners in the 80s if you'd have told them to retrain or something?

mudlarking would have suited a lot of them.

 

[mojo pixy]

But playing music isn't just another job like stacking shelves. It's a calling, it's hope, it's joy, it's creativity, it's fucking hard work, it's a constant battle uphill, it's something that people live for, it's something that makes people's lives worth living, it's something that keeps mental health issues at bay, it's creative expression, it's sharing human emotions and it's bringing pleasure and empathy to people's lives and much more. It's also an industry that makes the UK billions of pounds and sustains the existence of pubs, clubs, festivals and gives employment to tens of thousands of people.

And Brexit is threatening to take that all away from some people, and all you can say is "get another job" like that will fix everything. Why aren't you shouting to support an industry you claim to be part of? Or is it just because you're doing OK and think it will be that easy for everyone else?

No it is not, because I'm not. I'm scraping by, like millions of others. And I have a young child to support too (one of the reasons I had to give up playing music, being a single parent is impossible when you're out all weekend or away from home for a week at a time).

As for the bit in bold, doesn't go away if you play music as a sideline or even a hobby. It's still a calling, it's still joy, creativity, something to live for. It's still something that keeps mental health issues at bay (playing paid gigs and making a living =/= playing music for mental health, joy and creativity)

I'm keeping this short because (it may appear surprising) I genuinely don't want to row about it. For the third (?) time, I'm sorry Covid has fucked the livings of so many performers, I'm sorry the government hung performers out to dry in their ridiculous ''trade deal''. I hope something gets sorted out for everyone brexit is trouble for. What else can I say?

Let's stop taking the piss, maybe.

mudlarking would have suited a lot of them.

This is way more insulting to working people than anything I've posted.

 

[Pickman's model]

mudlarking would have suited a lot of them.

I think you'll facepalm yourself when you look back at this post which I am sure doesn't reflect your real views.

 

[editor]

As for the bit in bold, doesn't go away if you play music as a sideline or even a hobby. It's still a calling, it's still joy, creativity, something to live for. It's still something that keeps mental health issues at bay (playing paid gigs and making a living =/= playing music for mental health, joy and creativity)

It's also a career, a profession, something people have worked incredibly hard at for years while taking really shitty jobs to support themselves so it's not a 'hobby' to them, even if it is to you. And it's not some pie in the sky dream. The music industry generates millions for the UK.

And for many a music career will become impossible because of fucking Brexit. Yet instead of blaming Brexit and the lack of government support you're blaming the musicians - the very same people who have been contributing to one of the UK's biggest exports and industries. The bankers got billions when their shitty industry collapsed - yet I haven't heard you lobbying for the music industry to get the same support. Instead you're telling people to go out and busk in the street.

What's wrong with liking your job anyway? Loads of people do.

 

[mojo pixy]

It's also a career, a profession, something people have worked incredibly hard at for years while taking really shitty jobs to support themselves so it's not a 'hobby' to them, even if it is to you. And it's not some pie in the sky dream. The music industry generates millions for the UK.

And for many a music career will become impossible because of fucking Brexit. Yet instead of blaming Brexit and the lack of government support you're blaming the musicians - the very same people who have been contributing to one of the UK's biggest exports and industries. The bankers got billions when their shitty industry collapsed - yet I haven't heard you lobbying for the music industry to get the same support. Instead you're telling people to go out and busk in the street.

What's wrong with liking your job anyway? Loads of people do.

But musicians like their job more than anyone, or what? I don't get the point of that post, other than to have some kind of last word. Well it's your site, so you have that right. I'm not interested in a back-and-forth with you over fuck all.

Oh no I said fuck all, must mean I don't care!

 

[bimble]

What is it that makes the trade deal ridiculous in your opinion mojo pixy ? Are there specific things you’d have done differently if you were the boss of brexiting?

 

[killer b]

I'm not interested in a back-and-forth with you over fuck all.

Uh huh.

 

[mojo pixy]

Uh huh.

View attachment 254150

Uh huh indeed. This is the thread where it finally dawned in me what a waste of time it is to argue with editor

What is it that makes the trade deal ridiculous in your opinion mojo pixy ? Are there specific things you’d have done differently if you were the boss of brexiting?

Almost everything.

 

[editor]

Well it's your site, so you have that right.

Absolutely irrelevant to this discussion. A nasty little unfounded dig.

 

[TopCat]

A quarter of our GDP.

Creative industries treated as 'afterthought' by UK government after Brexit

MPs discussed EU visas for artists which have resulted in bureaucracy and added costs

www.theguardian.com